I think the mayor needs to understand that he represents the city as a WHOLE, not just part. Not all decisions made by the council affect the city as a whole, but this one did. Mayor Paul may have won the election for mayor, but that is all it was, an election for mayor. TIF was not on the ballot anywhere. His choice to use an anti WalMart platform worked to get him elected, yet he offered no solutions upon taking office...just empty promises to stop the TIF. Of the 6514 registered voters in Ellisville, only 1156 voted 'anti TIF'. That is only 17.75% of the registered voters, clearly not the majority. The people that elected the current sitting council members entrusted them to do what is fiscally right for the city, and like it or not, the council did that tonight. This was a business deal, dealing with commercial property(not residential) that was in the works long before Adam Paul moved here.

Hello Sean Anglin, husband of counsel member Dawn Anglin who lost to Mayor Paul miserably; of course you would defend this action, but she will be recalled after her actions tonight.

Katie James, a TIF commission member that is suppose to have the best interest of the city that voted for the TIF, and a husband (Sean Anglin: husband of Dawn Anglin) attacking our current Mayor. That is creditable....RECALL.

I just can't believe I'm losing my home of 16 1/2 years to a Walmart. Thanks alot elected council members, I hope you sleep well knowing you've just displaced 200+ people from their homes.

So my opinion counts for less somehow Alexandra? I have followed this city for 15 years, I know the challenges that it faces, We are a small community and information is easy to get if you take the time to get involved.

I hope they understand they personally displaced you. It was not the free market, it was the city counsel that personally made the decision to remove you.

Did I say it counts less??? Or are you putting words in my mouth! I've been here for 28 years, and know your dark secrets little lady. Poor Mr. Knapp, which was a great guy....why did he move again?

Say what you will, what was needed at the end of this meeting was leadership from the Mayor, not throwing flames on the fire. This issue has divided the community something fierce, and like it or not, neither side planned for how to proceed after the vote.
Hearing the mayor's "plan" was painful as he was stumbling to actually put one together. Hearing false statements by residents and by elected officials sucked too. Overall, I give the whole issue 3 stars for drama, but only one overall as the "ending" was lacking.

Sean Anglin, husband of current city council member Dawn Anglin, I was trying to respond to you since this was directed towards me, but it was instantly deleted after posting. Fortunately, I was emailed a copy which I am re-posting, lucky you, so I am responding to your direct comment. It is disappointing that a current city council members husband is going on record attacking the current Mayor. Sad. I am sure your wife will be very happy with you...or not. RECALL!
____________________________________________________________
Sean

12:18 am on Thursday, May 3, 2012

Alexandra,
I'm not defending her actions, she can stand on her own. I simply stated the facts. The council voted in the best interest of the CITY AS A WHOLE. Those that oppose the TIF do not represent the majority of the citizens of Ellisville. If there were truly a majority of the population against the TIF, the gym at Ellisville Elementary would have been overflowing. It's interesting that it's OK for the mayor to chastise the council this week, yet last meeting when the council called him to task on his 'ideas' they were supposedly 'picking on the mayor' in a 'rare breach of decorum'. Adam Paul made promises he could not keep, about a business deal he had no control over. I might add that my wife never made any disparaging comments about Adam Paul during her campaign, nor did she distort facts to suit her needs. She ran, she lost, end of story. There's no need to get mean about it.

Alexandra, or shall I say Kojak, has it wrong. I used my real name and email. The same one printed on my business card even.

If you don't know me I would guess maybe it is because you have never stopped by and introduced yourself. That's what citizens of 28 years do...in some cases, in other places, apparently.

But alas, you've convinced me I was on the wrong side of the issue.

Mr. Knapp in Baltimore....He'll testify.

Where can I find more information about the recall effort?

Sean,

You are correct in that the mayor represents the whole city. The question is did he? I say yes. You see I actually walked around and asked residents if they were for or against the tif. The overall majority are against. Did your wife do the same? I doubt it. I doubt anyone on the city council did.
So if they didn’t speak to the residents how do they know what they wanted? They are supposed to listen to the people. They didn’t. The people voted. The majority voted for a anti-tif mayoral candidate. Did the city council listen to then. Nope. The majority of residents at all the tif meetings spoke against the tif. Did they listen. No.

So now we have options on how to make them listen. Trust me the majority of the residents of Ellisville that I have spoken to will do their best to give all the council members who voted for this more spare time. Maybe then they will listen. I doubt it.

John

The City Attorney, the City Council and Sansone misrepresented the facts re:
the Threat of Eminent Domain in the Walmart TIF Plan

Every Ellisville property owner deserves the truth—the owners of Clarkchester Apartments and the three small businesses were under the Threat of Eminent Domain as of June 15, 2011 when the City Council passed Resolution 06-15-1 titled:

“A Resolution Authorizing a Preliminary Funding Agreement with Sansone Group in Connection with a Proposed Tax Increment Financing Project and Authorizing Certain Actions Connected Therewith.”

Which contains the following text:

Page 2, Section 4 - Consideration of Incentives.
Article “a” of the Preliminary Funding Agreement states --

“The City understands that the redevelopment project will include the construction of an approximately 120,000 square foot Wal-Mart Supercenter.
The City further understands that the Company may require the use of the
City’s power of eminent domain in order to assemble property within the
proposed redevelopment area, and if it is required, the redevelopment
agreement will allow for eminent domain…”

There is is in black and white--the Threat of Eminent Domain...and the fact that the City Council was willing to wield Eminent Domain on unwilling or troublesome property owners.

The Clarkchester owners signed a conditional sales agreement sometime immediately before January 30, 2012 when they held tenant meeting to tell us they had just signed.

Correction: >>>City Council passed Resolution 06-15-11<<<

So, from 06/15/11 to January of 2012, roughly 5 1/2 months, the were fully aware of the Threat of Eminent Domain.

When property owners fight they almost always lose...at the federal and state level.

See:

Kelo v. City of New London, 545 U.S. 469 (2005) and City of Arnold [MO] v. Homer R. Tourkakis, et al., SC88647.

The 2005 Resolution which people believe prevents the City Council from using Eminent Domain against residential property owners is the long ago empty promise of a City Council that is long gone out of office.
We need an Ordinance with the force of law.

Without Eminent Domain a TIF developer cannot take your property unless they give you the price you demand.

It’s like taking a gun from an armed robber.

We need to disarm the City Council and their accomplices the Developers with recall and an initiative petition ordinance to defend all residential property so this never happens to Ellisville residents again.

Join the Ellisville Article 9 Alliance for recall and initiative petition action.

ellisvilleA9A@yahoo.com

I have lived here for 11 years and regret choosing this "town". What town? Where is the community, all we have here are empty businesses. Has anyone asked the question why ellisville cannot keep businesses here let alone attract businesses? So now we get a massive Walmart right across from Kmart. Now Kmart will probably close to leave yet another empty shopping center. It is a never ending problem. We pay ridiculous property taxes on our homes, I have to ask the question, why? The only thing this town offers are good schools and a park. I wish our elected officials had more thought to build a community together instead of bowing down to the large corporations. I wish we were more like wildwood with an actual plan. I am sorry the elected felt it was their right to take anything they wanted such as apartments to get Walmart here, We have plenty of empty spaces for them to choose from. Next election, I know who to vote for and who not to vote for.

Sean,

You wrote--

>>>That is only 17.75% of the registered voters, clearly not the majority.<<<

Decisions are made by those who show-up. The rest were apparently disinterested regardless of their opinion. They themselves decided they don't count.

Only a minority of register voters bother to vote in Spring municipal elections at all. If 25-30% of the total turn out to vote in the Spring, that's considered a "good" turn out.

Your math trick won't work on those who know better.

I guarantee you that the next municipal election will have a far better than average turn out.

I can hear the moving trucks and heavy equipment already...beep-beep-beep...So glad that this is over...Kudos to the board, for watching out for what is without question, in the best fiscal interest of the entire city...Thank goodness that a loud minority, and our new man/child mayor, weren't aloud to make an enormous business mistake.

Tired--

Be aware that your gleeful (and apparently heartless) reaction to the sound of heavy equipment and moving trucks (while you hide behind a moniker) means this:

To All Concerned Residents of Ellisville:

Clarkchester Apartments has 25 buildings with 4 units each. There are 100 units with approximately 2.5 persons per unit. We don’t have a firm count, but we are talking about roughly 250 people...out on the street if they tear down the apartments for the Walmart-TIF project.

The rent is very affordable for West County and Rockwoods School District. The apartments are spacious and well-kept. Some owners have re-modeled their units with energy efficient windows and patio doors, new kitchens, new carpeting and tile flooring within the past several years. The grounds are always mowed and landscaped. People walk the streets at night without fear for their safety.

Many residents are older couples or older single people on fixed incomes. There are also many working single parents with children. We have some disabled elderly and disabled children. Some very young people who are working and going to college and share expenses with roommates. This is their first apartment on their own.

A few residents have been here as long as 20 years. It is not unusually to talk with someone who has been here more than 10 years.

cont'd

cont'd

The loss of Clarkchester Apartments will be a life changing event for many—and not for the better. Some will recover from the move. Others may never recover. Because of the recession, reduced fixed income, fewer hours at work and spousal job loss may make it impossible for many residents to pass a credit check and get an apartment at a much higher monthly rent.

If the Walmart- TIF goes through, people will be wrenched away from friends, neighbors and their support systems...even family in some cases. The school aged children will have to change schools and school districts. One handicapped child goes to school at Ellisville Elementary only a few blocks away.

For the past few months we have had survey crews on our apartment grounds. Lately, they are here almost every day. We watch crews paint our streets, driveways and parking areas and plant utility lines with flags. They mark this place up like it is a done deal…and have been doing so since January...long before the first vote on April 18th.

A lousy $1,000 to help with moving expenses won’t compensate for the loss we may experience.

[End]

Tired, since you are so tired you can sleep at night. But, be aware that this happened under the Threat of Eminent Domain contained in Resolution 06-15-11.

So, every resident of Ellisville needs to know that a good night's sleep will only happened once they disarm the City Council's use of Eminent Domain. It could easily happen to them.

Alexandra - I don't have a dog in this fight but you might want to spell council correctly. It's the Council and they are Councilman. And "that is CREDITABLE".....? Creditable means deserving some credit or praise.....having good financial credit. Did you mean "incredulous"? I'm not as concerned nearly as much about the TIF as I am about the design of the store and Walmart's reputation for leaving stores vacant for what they perceive are greener pastures. Is Walmart capable of building something other than a big ugly concrete box with a sea of parking in front? Did anything from the Great Streets Initiative influence their plan? What happened to walkability? What happened to making Manchester Road a "destination"? A place where people come together? All the power to you Ellisville if Sansone and Walmart have plans to deliver something better than their history would indicate. I'm just playing devil's advocate......I want to believe that SOMEONE on the Council considered these thoughts. Did anyone? Tell me.......inquiring minds want to know.

Thank you Jane, but it is a common mistake! I was referring to people not the assembly of an organization. To quote a lawyer: 'Council, denotes a deliberative body or assembly. For example, a city council. A counsellor is one who gives advice – often but not always legal.' Either way, you are missing the point sunshine so please get it right before you TRY to chastise. Chastise means reprimand if you are confused, and I had it right, 'not Credible' meaning not reliable. Have a great day!! I am off of the boards for now, until we meet again PATCH!

And while I'm being critical of the incorrect use of the english language.....Mr. Castle......in my opinion....you are incorrect to call the TIF Commission the "City's TIF Commission". A TIF Commission has representatives from not only the city but St. Louis County, the Rockwood School District and other taxing jurisdictions. And I believe I have commented before on this subject.......Sales Tax or "EATS" is only one part of the TIF issue. Another huge chunk deals with the real estate taxes. How many are aware of the real estate tax currently charged to Ellisville residents? Tell me.....does it even cover the cost of the trash removal provided residents? (I assume this is still the case - my apologies if I'm in error). Doubtful. It is woefully apparent to me that many, many individuals do not understand the TIF structure. It is much more complicated. Do all of you wonderful Ellisville residents support your local businesses so that as much revenue flows to your city as possible? Or do you go to the "Valley" or the "Highlands" where a large part of the once successful businesses located on Manchester Road have fled? Many of these retailers are concerned about making money and they'll follow the herd for the perceived greener pastures. Patronize businesses that have "stuck it out"....... SHOP LOCALLY !

Confused.....Patch.......why is my first comment "pending approval" and the second.....SEVERAL minutes later....apparently accepted?

To anyone who cares about the use and the facts regarding Eminent Domain in the Sansone Walmart TIF deal, please read the paragraph below from the landlords of Clarkchester Apartments to their tenants.

>>>Notice to All Tenants

January 20, 2012

As of January 19, 2012, the owners of the apartments in the Clarkchester Apartment Complex were required to sign a 6-8 month option contract with Sansone Development Company or face possible condemnation proceedings under the power of Eminent Domain. This contract is NOT a sale agreement. Instead it is an agreement whereby the owners will allow Sansone Development Company access to the property to decide if the property as a whole is suitable for their development.<<<

So there is the truth regarding the threat and power of Eminent Domain in connection with this project... in Resoltion 06-15-11 and the paragraph above.

There has been a misrepresentation of the facts. City officials and City Council representatives who have said that Eminent Domain was not an issue or concern need to be held accountable.

Respectfully, SUNSHINE, It is not a common mistake. What point am I missing? I've READ your every word and rather than assault duly elected councilmembers why don't you step in and run yourself if you feel you can do a better job? And you said "That is creditable" - your response just now used yet another phrase "not Credible". You aren't even close to correct. I was not confused......you are....... and you missed my point. Everyone.......everyone in this issue needs to educate themselves fully before casting stones on either side. At least I have the guts to use my full name and having served on a TIF Commission myself, I am thoroughly familiar with the subject.

For all of those against the TIF, I would love to hear your solution to turning this city around. We need revenue in order to have public safety, improved park facilities, continuing to improve the infrastructures within the city, equipment purchases. I have heard many naysayers, but I have not heard one solution to our problem which is to increase the revenues to our city. We are not helping ourselves by having all of our businesses move out of Ellisville so everyone in the West St. Louis County area can go shopping in the Valley, at 141, or at the Bluffs. By bringing the big box stores to our city, other businesses will want to be around them, thus bringing in more funds for the city. Yes, we are giving them a TIF, but the monies are going to keep this area beautiful.

Why do you think the Valley is continuing to build more shopping centers? They are pulling in so many people to go shopping there, stores want to go there.

I believe if you look at the big picture, it may be the best solution for us. I'm just worried we are behind the eight ball and it may be too late for us. I haven't heard any other solutions and this one seems viable to me.

Also, please don't forget there are people out here that are for the TIF. The negatives in life seem to always be in the limelight, as it is in our city right now.

It's time we pull together and make some positives happen for our area.

Cindy

Cindy - well said. But I know from 14 years of experience as an alderman that many individuals don't look at issues from more than one angle. They make up their mind based on what they hear and want to hear and can't be confused with the facts. How many of those hear went to the public input sessions on the Great Streets Initiative? Ballwin and Ellisville are in somewhat similar situations......we are dependent on sales tax revenues. Ballwin collects NO real estate taxes and Ellisville collects a miniscule amount and provides trash service to its residents (at last check). Where does the revenue come from to provide police? Infrastructure? Quality of Life Amenities? The City of Manchester has a real estate tax AND a "point of sale" sales tax revenue generator, the Highlands. Many of Ballwin and Ellisville businesses have relocated there. The local portion of the sales tax collected in the Valley isn't even kept by the City of Chesterfield. It goes into the "pool" and is redistributed throughout St. Louis County based on population. Gee whiz citizens.......educate yourselves and participate in POSITIVE change.

here not hear.....sorry......I do make typos.

Nice going Ellisville in displacing 250 families. Walmart did it again,using cities to fund their stores. Good old American greed at work.

You're right MWatson, and I hope there is something we all can do about people loosing their homes and businesses. Hopefully, but it looks bleak unfortunately unless we all band together for the cause. If we can't do something about this incident, we can definitely do something about it becoming a repeat offense, and elect people that will listen as Mayor Paul has. Recall/Special Election/OUR CHARTER, we have a voice through that and can take action together.

MWatson, Alexandra, and ESchmidt. Wow. There was nothing in any of my comments that supported Eminent Domain or this particular project. In fact I asked if you knew whether this would be a typical Walmart concrete box / footprint. Alexandra - Please don't speak for me or interpret my actions.....I didn't speak for you. It is frustrating to read comments that don't make any sense - I'm simply trying to clarify and understand your points. And for Mr. Castle - in my opinion - he couldn't write both sides of any story if his life depended on it. Ask him about his obviously slanted coverage of the Schnucks project at Kehrs Mill and Clarkson Rd. Inferring it would be a 24 hour store. And the Patch allowing slanderous postings accusing an entire City and Board of corruption when absolutely no proof is offered. Loved the comment by Ballwin-resident Jim Nelson comparing the development to the Nazis. Now that's insulting to those who suffered through those atrocities. I have read with interest about this project and have yet to see any explanation of the TIF structure and requirements. Just wanting balanced reporting. And there's always the threat of litigation by the property owners. Why Walmart needs the Clarkchester Apts. is beyond me. That's why I'm asking !!!!! Not one of you, to include the writer, has offered any plan details. If, as inferred, the owner of the Clarkchester Apts is opposed why hasn't their side been reported? How many owners are involved?

Jane Suozzi, I'm sure you're a scream at dinner parties. While I find it terribly amusing that your biggest concern is why no one bothered to ask Sansone if they would be building one of those tasteful, attractive Walmarts (are those new?) I also find it troubling that you're more concerned about making Manchester Road a "destination" than you are about the homes and lives of 200 of your neighbors.

I understand that sad things happen to people every day. It may be easier to chalk this up to one of those things if it didn't involve handing out financial perks to companies that don't need them in order to move forward with a completely unnecessary development. West County isn't exactly a shopping desert.

CSloan - I made no comment about the residents of the Clarkchester Apts. And I don't have time for dinner parties. You missed my point on the Walmart design entirely. I am attempting to compare this TIF proposal, which I personally feel is troubling (in case you really wanted to know my opinion) to the successful TIF in the City of Ballwin. Manchester Road is a commercial district.....the term "destination" is in the Great Streets Initiative with the intention of re-inventing Manchester Road into a destination for families....street side cafes.....traffic calming.....elimination of seas of parking... And you too, CSloan, have no idea of my compassion for the residents potentially displaced. It's a shame that my recent post stating that I have no clue why Walmart needs the Clarkchester Apts. arrived after your post. It's sort of ironic that you're twisting my comments to be in favor of this development and they are clearly not. I'm trying to get clarity. Frankly, I was once.....about 20 years ago.... opposed to a project considered by the City of Ballwin. The project was still completed but w/ a different route.....one more amenable to the residents. Please understand that I am not defending this project or this use of Tax Increment Financing. Every project should be judged on its own merit. I, too, am concerned for these residents. Because of the sales tax structure in St. Louis County, cities are cannibalizing each other as many depend heavily on sales tax.

Ms. Cunningham needs to review her real estate bill and note the % going to Ellisville...miniscule. Ballwin's TIF was initiated by 57 property owners....not the City....not the developer. Many positive elements were included in the plan.....landscaped medians.....better pedestrian access.....Vlasis Park improvements. The property utilized had failing infrastructure and in my opinion, would not have been developable without assistance. I corrected Mr. Chase on his labeling of the TIF Commission as the City's because it is not. Ballwin's TIF was approved by the Commission..reps from many taxing jurisdictions. Eminent Domain was not utilized but it was available. Traditionally, in a TIF project developed properly, the displaced property owners receive more than market value and sometimes MUCH more. Ask the Saturn Dealer in Manchester. Ask the former residential property owners to the east of the Highlands. Fortunately, in the Ballwin TIF, while there were those opposed, the strong majority of the property owners most affected .... those that OWNED property in the district .... were pleased the project moved forward. The ball park benefits from additional parking. Traffic ...specifically truck traffic...is prohibited in front of the elementary school and pedestrian access across Manslaughter Road (as I call it) was enhanced. Kehrs Mill Road to the south of Vlasis Park was "calmed" making it safer for both park users and motorists.

CSloan - you hopefully will find this site helpful in your understanding of The Great Streets Initiative - Manchester Road. http://www.ewgateway.org/manchester/default.htm
Perhaps you'll appreciate the forward thinking and positive concept presented and understand the term "destination" as I used it above. Manchester Road was designed to move traffic. From default.....it's the life line for several cities.....Ballwin and Ellisville specifically. We CAN maintain its function as a way to get to/from Wildwood and beyond.....the cities collaborating on this project would like to make it more than that. The individuals providing input at the public forums undoubtedly thought they were contributing valuable comments. In my opinion....and I stress that.....I have little confidence that Sansone and Walmart will build anything other than the typical Walmart. Many big box retailers are capable of "thinking outside the box"....no pun intended..... but please remember.....Sansone and Walmart are in the driver's seat and the elected officials in Ellisville have been presented difficult decisions. It's unfortunate that Walmart wants this space. While it's an ugly proposition, we live in a society where litigation is often used by those wanting their way. Ever think of that possibility here? Just asking.

Mr. Rhodes - I appreciate that you have had a positive experience with the Patch. When I have pointed out details and corrections, they were not printed or corrected. I have offered Mr. Castle on several occasions to sit down and respond to any questions he might have on the Schnucks project, Judge Ross' ruling regarding same, history of the parcel in question, ANYTHING. There are reporters at the Patch who ask the probative questions that need to be asked of those making allegations of corruption, etc. or simply asking for consideration of another view point. The Patch can present a balanced story and can at least discourage inflammatory and slanderous posts. I personally have not found Mr. Castle supportive of this kinder, gentler dialogue. We're all neighbors here.......it does not require viciousness and bias to exercise one's freedom of speech.

I don't see anything on here that is vicious from anyone, you are the only one bashing people down Jane. Yes, there is light-hearted banter, but vicious? come on.... This is a discussion blog, where people can freely relay their opinions. A place to he heard when other outlets are not listening i.e. our government. I stand by the Editor, as M. Rhodes stated earlier, because this is a fantastic outlet for the community and he manages it well!

Jimmy C - Nice that you give your last name. Now Alexandra......his comments aren't vicious? Really? By the looks? I do not know what you mean by too many lunches. I am not obese. Who do you have me confused with? I don't recall ever meeting Alderman Kaate James much less knowing her well. I don't know her AT ALL ! You are misinformed. I have no connection with this so called Ellsville Good Old Boys network. Listen to my people? What could have been prevented? Alexandra, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Jimmy C, like many who like to type inuendos and accusations has written absolutely nothing truthful. He has no idea where I have worked nor what I have done. What one topic? As for business knowledge, I was an Accounting Manager for a small business for 15+ years. Local governments are not businesses and are not operated like businesses. And you have no idea whether I'm at work.....what I'm doing at work.....anything. I made comment on the Ballwin TIF......not all TIFs. Proud of yourself? Slandering? Lying? Good....healthy....exchange of ideas and opinion. NOT.

Thank you Michael. I have no idea who this character is other than terribly misinformed. I am genuinely pleased that you are happy with your experience with the Patch and Chase Castle. I haven't been as fortunate.....that's all. Have a nice day everyone.

You don't have time for dinner parties, Jane? You appear to have an abundance of time. Thank you for the exhaustive explanation of your use of the word destination, but I actually have no problems understanding the Great Streets Initiative. I pulled a couple of the most salient thoughts from between your ellipses, and it was in no way meant to be a critique of the initiative. In terms of the timing of my post, please consult the well documented posting delay and consider that I did not see your clarification. ***Ever think of that possibility here? Just asking.*** Oddly enough, I think we might agree on far more than we would appear to, I just find your delivery to be a tad foul.

Speaking of foul, I would ask that Jimmy C's comment be removed. Mr. C, while I don't care for Ms. Suozzi's spelling snobbery and question anyone who still uses a catchphrase from 1992, your comment is simply not okay.

MWatson--

You wrote--

>>>Whether you agree with her or not, Ms. Schmidt is informed and has comported herself well in the debate here. If the progression of this development continues and she loses her home I hope that she makes other accomodations to stay in Ellisville. I would be happy to have her as a neighbor.<<<

Thanks for the kind words. I am not going anywhere just yet.

This debacle is getting national attention. A Money Magazine Best Places to Live ranked town tells 250 residents to "Get Out!" and small businesses "Don't Bother Coming Here."

Unfortunately, we can expect the smart, small retailers to get outta Dodge while the getting is good. So more vacant commercial property is in our future...dead ahead.

>>>Walmart’s entry into a new market has a strongly negative effect on existing retailers. Supermarkets and discount variety stores are the most adversely affected, suffering sales declines of 10 to 40% after Walmart opens.<<<

and;

>>>A study of Chicago in 2009 shows that businesses within one mile of a Walmart Supercenter have a 25% chance of shuttering in the first year, and a 40% chance of shuttering by the second year, when compared with stores farther than one mile from the Supercenter.<<<

Given that Ellisville is only 3 mi. long by 1 mi. wide that puts nearly all our retailers in peril of closing.

See the below pdf which mentions the St. Louis area.

http://makingchangeatwalmart.org/files/2012/03/SmallBusiness.pdf

I am disgusted to read the name calling and viciousness on this board. Just because someone's opinion differs from your own doesn't make them a bad person or their opinion wrong.

I am sorry families will be displaced for this project but this is NOT a case of eminent domain. The families are renters, not owners. The owners of the property are more than happy to sell their properties. People put faith in a candidate who has NO government experience and voted for him on the pretense that he would stop a project he has no authority stopping. The initial vote should have taken place before he took office. The truth of the matter is that we need sales tax dollars in this community and it needs to be from more than just mom and pop stores, otherwise Ellisville will no longer be able to afford the amenities it offers now. We have a lot of businesses leaving the area and people are fighting the one business that wants to come in.

People put faith in a candidate who was listening Bob. I would like to ask you, what exactly is 'experience' to you? This is America and leaders rise from unexpected areas. Prejudging a person due to their age, race, education level, and/or business title does not make a person less qualified to perform. The other council members have had 6 years to listen to people, and have chosen not to, but he has and that says more about him as a person than any 'experience'. He tried and they rejected the idea of trying anything that was outside the 'norm'. Perillo stated 'this is the only way to get big box stores', and it is not, look at Florissant which rejected the TIF and Walmart resubmitted a proposal without a TIF THIS YEAR. This logic that some of the council members are running on is elementary. I am sure at some point your mother asked you, if everyone is jumping off a cliff should you do the same?

As for city money, we will loose K-Mart inevitably (we all know this), Vet Hospital, Valvoline, Clarkchester (200+ residents), and whoever else Walmart takes out. So this 600,000/Year with all the deductions we will see throughout our area will be null. On the plus side, we gave 15 MILLION away for 600,000/ year, so yeah that sounds right...? (sarcastic statement to be clear). The cliff is no place to stand and they just jumped. Sad.

Okay I have heard enough of everyone arguing over who is right and wrong and who has the best grammar. I know that's not what I care about in this battle. I'm going to get personal here for a moment and I would appreciate if people from both sides would read this. I am a resident of Clarkchester Apartments and have been for 17 years since the age of 5. It's hard for some people to understand how devastating this approval can be if it doesn't affect your life directly. Those apartments have been my life and childhood for almost my entire life. Yes, it is just an apartment, but to me it is the only home I know. Now my mom has to figure out how to stretch her money even more just to afford to live, among many other residents! Take a second and try to imagine your mom trying to afford to survive and then forced to leave her home with only $1,000 dollars in her pocket. That's tough, right? I thought so. These are the things that I believe were not considered enough, and if they were then thank you to whoever has a heart. I go to college in Kansas City so I have not been able to attend any of the meetings or contribute, but I want to thank anyone who has been trying so hard to oppose this because I appreciate it and so do the other 250 residents and small business owners in the affected area.

Continued...

Continued..

No matter what your standpoint is, you have to know that this approval is morally wrong. Wouldn't you be furious if you were forced to relocate, wouldn't you be furious if your kids had to change schools and lose their friends? Tell me why we need another Wal Mart, and in a space that is occupied minding it's own business? It just feels so wrong that so many people will be affected by money, because in the end it is only paper. Yes, paper is deciding my fate. Now I will have to live with the fact that every time I drive by that area that my bedroom of 17 years will be a parking spot for someone's SUV. But I digress. What everyone is failing to see is that we are all humans, and we certainly don't seem to be acting that way. Aren't we all supposed to be in this thing together?

Amanda, thanks for your comment/s. Separately, as other readers have said, please keep future comments on point, all. Thank you.

Michael I think you might be missing the point. Yes, the owners had the right to sell their property, but the city of Ellisville did not have to get involved in the transaction. The people representing the ENTIRE city voted to get rid of OUR residents and businesses, they didn't have to. They could have said no, and if Walmart desired that property, Ikea desired that property, BassPro Shop desired that property they could offer to buy and yes the owners do have a choice. The city does not need to get involved to help people loose their homes.
This is a scary thing we are all facing. This action shows, if you live a little too close to Manchester, and big box store says 'Hey! I want to tear down that neighborhood of homes to make a super center', your home Michael could be gone. Not only that, the city you specifically picked to live in, the city you pay taxes in, the city you call home and want to spend your life in and make memories in is gone. Not just due to the free market but WITH THE CITY OF ELLISVILLE'S HELP. It was wrong no matter how you slice it, but even more disturbing that the city paid to get rid of people and businesses. Why would anyone want to start-up a business here or live here? If a big box wants to be in the place a cute little business ELLISVILLE will pay to shut them down. If you buy a home here, it better be pretty far back from Manchester, or you might loose it to the next super center...honestly.
continued...

continued...
The majority of the city council made that clear with their vote that they will not protect the people they are suppose to serve. Like I said earlier, the tax dollars they are seeking will be null after Walmart shuts down Kmart and the others. This store does not offer something different and new. This store will not transform the area, but even if it could the city did not have to get involved to this degree.

This sad for the residents, sad for the businesses and their employees, sad for the people of Ellisville because they made the wrong choice of representation. This was not in the best interest of the city. Ellisville is suppose to be a standup Midwest town and it is not; that showed through the leadership on May 2nd 2012. We are just like any other town and did not deserve to be named one of the 'Best Places to Live'.

For YEARS, with many many public hearings and meetings, Clarkchester apartments and the rest of that area has been DEFINED as a redevelopment area. The city is not random in its development plan. YOU had the right and opportunity to participate in Master Plan discussions. Ask Councilmember Murray who got involved in city politics because she wanted to be involved in master plan discussions. The people who live in Clarkchester had opportunity to be involved as did the owners. Who would even want to live on Manchester or Clarkson roads today. When I moved here Clarkson Rd was a small two lane road with some spots having a turn lane... good thing it got widened or the gridlock would be horrific. When my father first started teaching at the new Lafayette HS on Clayton (now Crestview Middle School), it was in the middle of a corn field. Good thing someone sold out or many of us would currently not have homes in Ellisville.

Lol. A thinks I have secrets.

The politics of personal destruction

Cute response little lady, but we know the truth and I will leave it at that. Back to what's more important than you, this is a low point for our city and I hope this is the rock bottom....we will see I suppose.

Alexandra, I have never personally attacked you nor do I know who you are, I have tried very hard to keep focused onthis issue and not elude to snide innuendos . So as far as being a low point. You have brought it there

Have a great day K James! =)

p.s. I was not referring to you as a 'low point' I was referring to the ACTUAL topic which is the TIF. It appears you are upset, and that is no way to start the weekend. So, let's just both calm down and both agree to not have any more coffee today. =) SO until we meet again on the Patch... =)

Michael Rhodes--

You wrote---

>>>I do have a suggestioin to address this problem. Get just one property owner to step forward and file a complaint that they were coerced into selling. Keep in mind any contract that covers up an illegal activity or created in the commision of a crime is unenforceable. Not only will the developer suffer legal ramifications the city and developer would then have to use ED to obtain the property. They may or may not succeed. With the illegal activity it would be the property owner with the upper hand in court though.<<<

This suggestion would be funny if it weren't so sad.

You just don't understand that the Threat of Eminent Domain is "legalized extortion" do you?

And you also don't seem to understand that when owners fight they lose in state and federal supreme courts, do you?.... even though I have cited the Kelo v. City of New London cases and the City of Arnold [MO] v. Tourkakis cases time and again.

File a complaint...what a laugh...people have filed cases heard by Supreme Courts and lost.

This is a ridiculous "suggestion" on your part.

For sure, if Ellisville has learned one thing from all of this...Alexandra loves Baltimore.

If you need to know anything about Jane Suozzi, just look at the hideous monstrosity being built at the corner of Kehrs Mill and Clarkson Roads. Suozzi when a Ballwin alderperson ran with a promise to keep the corner zoned residential and was elected. She then promptly turned on the people who elected her [including me] and sold out to Schnucks along with her corrupt counterparts in the Ballwin government. Residents adjoining the Schnucks mess have lost tens of thousands in property value, the corner is clogged with traffic and a nightmare for student safety. That is Suozzi’s legacy in Ballwin.

we have lived in ellisville since 1982. My youngest son worked part time at the walmart in chesterfield valley to save enough money for college. He went to st louis univ and then on to univ of chicago law school. He married a fellow lawyer he met there, now lives in washington, dc and between them make >$500 annually. If it had not been for his job at walmart, non of this would have happened. Walmart in Ellisville will be the best thing that has ever happened to this city.

Michael Rhodes,

>>>>ED cases can and have been won.<<<<

Cite the cases as I have done to support your position. Since the 2005 U.S. Supreme Court decision in Kelo it has been lost case after lost case. Which is the there is a bill in the U.S. Congress to overturn Kelo, HR 1433

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/212699-house-takes-aim-at-supreme-courts-kelo-property-rights-ruling

And since you are so knowledgeable, tell us all what happens to the compensation offer when a property owner loses the case. Do you know?

I have to admire the progression of the arguments thus far;

Eminent Domain wasn't and issue or concern. The owners wanted or were eager to sell. [Proven false.]

The City Council didn't really threaten Eminent Domain. They didn't mean it (from Robert Compton.) [Proven false.]

...with most of these arguments being made by people who either knew full well TIF and Eminent Domain go hand in hand and pretended not to know, or should have known given the are ran for political office, served on a TIF commission or had prior elected experience...actual ignorance or willful ignorance? Either way, it is still no excuse.

Now, having been proven wrong, they are into the "blame the property owner" phase.

Sad, yet predictable.

Note in the first link that the man didn't get to keep his property. Eminent Domain still won out.

Note in the second link the 93 yr. old woman didn't get to keep her property. Eminent Domain still won out.

Note in the third case the attorney said, “It’s strange, too, because rarely do you win these kinds of cases,” Mr. Rikon said of eminent domain defendants, “but I really thing this could have been different.”...and....the article noted, >>> Mr. Rikon also said there was no reason the city could not simply hold another eminent domain hearing in the future, correcting any apparent errors, and take the property all over again. He was hopeful that might never happen.<<<

So, it is at best unresolved and Eminent Domain could still win out.

Note in the fourth link that Eminent Domain still won out ( and the case was for a highway, not private economic development like Sansone Walmart.)

Note in the fifth link Eminent Domain still won out...for private development.

Thanks for helping me out. I missed at least one of those in my research.

Eminent Domain is still "legalized extortion." They lose the property almost every time.

You think the point is the money. Not the "legalized extortion" element.

>>>Do you not know what happens to the compensation offer if the property owner loses their ED fight?<<<

Yes I do know what happens to the compensation paid.

And then they have all the expenses, lost time and grief of a lost lawsuit.

Michael Rhodes,

I think you need to re-read those links you provided.

One case is unresolved. They could still lose the property to Eminent Domain for private development...and if they pursue a case for higher compensation get more money. They are still likely to lose the property in a post-Kelo environment.

Three cases were lost to public use...the more traditional use of Eminent Domain prior to the Kelo case. Two to were lost to highway construction and one to a park which is an acceptable use of Eminent Domain provided the owners are fairly compensated. They rarely are and have to sue. They still lose the property.

The case involving the 93 yr. old woman who lost her house to >>>Phoebe Putney Memorial Hospital <<< could fit into the traditional public use category if it was a not-for-profit hospital rather than a for profit hospital operated by a health care corporation.

Comparing people who by and large lost their property to traditional public use purposes (yet got more money) to the cases were people lose their property to private economic development is like comparing apples to oranges....and again, the only case you cited where the owners fought the taking of their property for private economic purposes, like Sansone Walmart, is still unresolved.

>>>"Yes I do know what happens to the compensation paid." What happenes?<<<

Search keywords Eminent Domain private economic development lose lost case sut or any combination and tell me what you find.

Again Michael Rhodes,

All you have to do is read the Kelo case and the Toukakis cases...and when a developer comes knocking on your door with a TIF Plan in hand that your City Council has fallen for, and the power of Eminent Domain to make it a reality, you will "get it' immediately.

Call Dr. Tourkakis if you like. He can talk freely about his experience now and does.

And if they are trying to take your block, subdivision or other multi-unit parcel with multiple owners like a developer often does...because Big Box Stores have mighty big foot prints...let me know how the dynamics of that work out for you when people are advised what happens in a post-Kelo environment when the lose.

Get back with me.

Michael Rhodes wrote--

>>>Exactly, those were majority for preceived public use and this your case it is for private venture that you stated the owners did not want to sell and were extorted. Seems like they would have a much stonger case than the ones I cited and none of those involved extortion.<<<

Yes you would think so...but, that is not the case which is why the most left and right wing Congressional Reps. have joined together to end this "legalized extortion" for private economic gain with HR 1433.

Maxine Waters (D) and Jim Sensenbrenner (R) co-sponsor a bill together? It must be the End Times...What's next?...Dogs and cats sleeping together?

It only goes to show how heinous and corrupt the process of TIF and Eminent Domain for private economic development purposes has become.

I find it laughable that "some" people commenting here keep insisting that the council's vote represents the will of all the residents of Ellisville versus the "minority" of the anti-TIF/Walmart residents. The recent mayoral election results contradict that ridiculous assertion. The two top vote getters, one of whom was Mr. Paul and the other, Michelle Murray, we're both anti-TIF candidates.

I think Ellisville residents voiced their opposition to the TIF very clearly on election day. Unfortunately, they probably (unwittingly) also negated their Mayoral votes by re-electing most of the same members, as well as former mayor Perillo (the biggest proponent of the TIF development) to the council.

Michelle Murray and Mayor Paul should be commended for casting their TIF votes based on their constituencies' desires. And hopefully the other council members who rammed the TIF through will suffer the same political fate as those on the Ballwin council who trampled on the wishes of its citizens by building the Clarkson/Kehrs Mill Schnucks.

Michael Rhodes--

>>>You make my point for me.<<<

I don't think so.

>>>We don't need to call Dr. Tourkakis, he already fought his fight. You make my point for me. He faced long odds and still stood up and fought.<<<<

>>>Something Dr. Tourkakis did not have in his case.<<<

Read the multiple case summaries in the Tourkakis situation.

His business was taken for economic development purposes. He was under the Threat of Eminent Domain from the get go...otherwise why go to court?

Do you think you are only under the Threat of Eminent Domain...if you don't fight?

You are under the Threat of Eminent Domain throughout the whole process...win, lose or draw in the court case.

If an armed robber [ City Council and Developer with Eminent Domain] approaches you [Property Owner] and you fight him [Lawyer], he is still threatening you [Threat of Eminent Domain] even if you fight him hard and long [Court Case] or just give over your property [Sign Optional Agreement] exchange for not being shot [Long Expensive Legal Battle that You Will Lose post-Kelo.]

You don't yet understand how "legalized extortion" under Eminent Domain for private economic development works. You are still in the "blame the property owner" phase.

Michael Rhodes-

>>>I am not saying your property owner will get to keep their property or that they will even get more money. This about the principle of the matter.<<<

Hmmm...Now you're saying this? Now you're saying that.

Would you like to stand with them on this new found principle?

Be their pro-bono attorney?

Would you like to fund their case?

I hope you have deep pockets.

ES;
I admire your tenacity on this subject, your command of ED is awe inspiring. I truly wish that you were a property owner so you could be the dissenting vote in the fight. However, regardless what the letter to you stated when the owners sent them to you, they have banded together with a private attorney and agreed to go forward with selling their properties. In fact several of the property owners have stood up in meetings and stated their not only willingness but eagerness to sell. You keep stating that they don't want this, but I cannot fathom that if an owner can get up and speak in favor of it, that NOT ONE of the owners got up and spoke against it. For all we know they are all jumping up and down doing the happy dance. There has been a whole lot of speculation on here about what the owners do and don't want, but no acutal owner, unless I missed one of them posting, has come forward. It does suck that renters can't stop their owners from selling, but in the end they do have the right to sell.

K James--

>>>I cannot fathom that if an owner can get up and speak in favor of it, that NOT ONE of the owners got up and spoke against it.<<<

You have a lot to learn about contract law.

And I guess you weren't listening the the daughter of one of the owners who wasn't speaking for her mother, but speaking about the situation.

Yet the owner didn't speak. Contract law? The selling owner who spoke was sure vocal.

Did ANY of the owners contact their council members while this process was occuring? and didn't ALL of the property owners sign with a private attorney?

K James--

>>>Yet the owner didn't speak. Contract law? The selling owner who spoke was sure vocal.<<<

You might try researching the term "bad faith."

And I continue to be appalled at the willful ignorance of current electeds and former electeds in Ellisville, as well as people like you, who had a direct hand in this process as a member of the Ellisville TIF Commission, who really don't understand or pretend to not understand that TIF and Eminent Domain go hand-in-hand and no little to no understanding of contract law as it applies to this situation or even a clue that they might need to know.

I only hope the new mayor is more careful in his appointments to commissions.

We can't fix obtuse, but we can recall it and send it home to watch TV on Wednesday evenings.

Liz, EACH AND EVERY owner had the opportunity to call their council member and voice concerns while this process was occuring. NO ONE EVER CONTACTED ME while onthe TIF commission who was a property owner to state they were afraid. NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM. NONE, NADDA ZIP. I had ZERO to gain by sitting on the TIF commission, I am a nurse by profession, it does not affect me one small bit. But I can tell you without equivocation that had a single owner called me in confidence that they were opposed I would have listened, and you and I would be having a different conversation here. And please refrain from name calling, I think that I have been respectful toward you during this debate, and have never called you names. I truly believe that we can have discourse without taking things to the gutter and name calling.

Kate,

>>>NO ONE EVER CONTACTED ME while on the TIF commission who was a property owner to state they were afraid.<<<

They owners knew, as did we all, that the County members would vote against it. Your vote and Pavlack's were inconsequential to the outcome. He seemed surprised and called it a "sham."

And as far as how well you listen, I clearly remember you telling one of or residents who explained to you how he would not be able to find housing at an affordable rate in Ellsivlle that he would just have to get used to a lower standard of living.

I also remember when I shook my head and commented that the TIF Commission made the right decision bu not recommending the TIF about how wrong this was, that you yelled something to the effect that St. Louis County had no business telling Ellisville what to do.

We know how well you listen.

>>>I had ZERO to gain by sitting on the TIF commission.,<<<

i think you had a Wlamart to gain and have said so many, many times.

Am I pleased to have walmart tax dollars in this city... YOU BETCHA. I HAVE NO PROBLEMS SHOPPING AT WALMART! I do have ZERO to gain, as I now trek down to the valley to shop at walmart, so it is a zero sum game, except my dollars will be spent and stay in this community. As much as you hate them, America shops there, or they would not be the mega store they are today. You chastise people because they choose to shop there, If you choose not to shop there that is entirely your business.

I still have never spoke to a SINGLE OWNER who didn't want to sell their property.

If it is a breach of contract for an owner to speak out against it, after they signed a contract and changed their mind, they will get sued by Sansone and would have no chance against them. There has been several owners that did NOT want this to pass, so please get your facts straight. There is so much that is not disclosed to all of us, and the apartment owners knew too little too late, unfortunately. You are clueless. The lack of compassion you show is sick. I see you throwing a lot of stones on this board, and would hate to see what those stones look like when they come back your way. Aggression is not becoming.

Just a thought, but you ladies could maybe exchange email addresses to communicate :) It somehow feels wrong to keep watching the bickering.
The drama has me. Someone wake Alexandra up to talk about Maryland :) Hang on, going to get popcorn.

Tired,
As a good friend recently pointed out...Woohoo, Walmart is coming.

Michael Rhodes wrote--

>>>You are taking the ED process and the fact that it exists even though not actually used in this case as extortion and an open threat.<<<

Essentially. yes. Eminent Domain was an open and ever present threat on the Clarkchester owners from 06-15-11forward (till the date they signed optional contracts) when the City Council passed the resolution which stated this:

Page 2, Section 4, Article “a” of the Preliminary Funding Agreement states --

>>>“The City understands that the redevelopment project will include the construction of an approximately 120,000 square foot Wal-Mart Supercenter.
The City further understands that the Company may require the use of the
City’s power of eminent domain in order to assemble property within the
proposed redevelopment area, and if it is required, the redevelopment
agreement will allow for eminent domain…”<<<

There is is in black and white--the Threat of Eminent Domain...and the fact that the City Council was willing to wield Eminent Domain on unwilling or troublesome property owners.

The Threat of Eminent Domain is enough to get owners to sign when they continually lose cases where property is taken for private economic development TIF purposes.

City governments are complicit--willing and eager participants--in legalized extortion.

Your house or neighborhood could be next.

Many, many are at risk now. Some only need zoning changes.

Liz. I do hope the new mayor appoints you to a board! Your grasp of the information regarding this issue is ever awe-inspiring!

Michael Rhodes,

>>>Yep, I got it now. It is not the point that it was used just that it existed in the first place.<<<

Yep. You got the gist for certain now.

In your case your backyard was in danger of being taken for an exit ramp--a public good in the "more traditional use of Eminent Domain." Had the project gone through and you were unhappy with the compensation, you could have filed suit for more money and likely won, but your property would still be gone.

You were smart to sell the house and get outta Dodge before they tried it again....Yikes!!!

And yes, nearly every homeowner is at risk for a game of stick 'em up with the City of Ellisville and a Developer on a TIF project or reduced property values as a result of a Big Box Behemoth. Unless you are safely tucked away far back from Manchester, Clarkson and Clayton Rds., you gotta problem.

That very busy corner in this affluent area of West County where even more affluent citizens pass daily would not have been left undeveloped without a TIF. Perhaps it wouldn't have been as large a development, but certainly it would have been developed. The developers are in the business of maximizing their own incomes, not those of the cities and citizens where they build. Check the history; check the stats. Check how long these large developments, especially Wal-Marts, lay as vacant eyesores once Wal-Mart decides to skip to another municipality down the road before real tax monies really roll in. Meanwhile, others have had to move and tax revenue lost from taxpaying properties and businesses.
As for Best Buy being a factor, it's a testament to the viability of this area that the Ellisville store stayed open so long and in such a tough economy after the new store at 141 opened. It was long expected that only one Best Buy would be serving the area; for extra years, there have been two.
Giving away the tax dollars as a TIF has done nothing but shift the burden of infrastructure and our school district to the remaining citizens. We are subsidizing Sansone and WalMart...again.

Has anyone verrified that all the properties involved real estate taxes were current at the time of the submission of this application?

VERY KEWL Liz, I have not a single musical bone in my body, my bro plays several string instruments and the piano so beautifully. I will reference your web sites, thanks for the info!!!!

EllisvilleRESOLUTION NO. 08-17-05A
It has taken me some time to find this information, but ANYONE can read through it. It is available via the Ellisville City website on the main page. This is the resolution passed by the city council in 2005, limiting the powers of the use of eminent domain in RESIDENTIALLY zoned areas by the city. Notice the Council members who voted for it, as you'll recognize a few of the names mentioned in this very discussion thread.
http://www.ellisville.mo.us/vertical/sites/%7B33CED3E0-6A3F-4820-B73B-819111695B3A%7D/uploads/Resolution_to_Limit_Use_of_Eminent_Domain.pdf

Paragraph 3 lays out the use of eminent domain within COMMERCIALLY zoned areas and that the city "Will first seek the partnership of local interests (in this case - the apartment/business owners) in areas contemplated for redevelopment and will proceed ONLY WITH THE CONCURRENCE of substantial numbers of the affected parties" (again in this case, the apartment/business owners). I know that I have been referred to as obtuse, sick and several other things, but my understanding in this current case is that before ANY discussions of eminent domain were even brought to bear before the council, the majority of PROPERTY OWNERS had to agree to sell, including the ownership group of Clarkchester Apartments.

continued...

As I have noted before, Clarkchester was designated as a redevelopment area with the PERMISSION of the majority of the owners several years ago after numerous public meetings were conducted. As for the 'threat' of using eminent domain, that is standard in all TIF legislation, it is there to keep an owner from changing their minds after they have already agreed on a price and BEFORE contracts are signed, basically stopping someone from holding out for more cash at the last minute.

So to put it in my own obtuse language; Before ANY legislation was brought before the council, the majority of property owners were asked if they were willing to sell, and yes they were. It's my understanding that the ownership group have even hired a single private attorney to represent them collectively in these negotiations in order to maximize their returns. They bought the apartments as an investment, not because they love being landlords.

continued.

As to the constant remarks about the city taking someones home, if it's in a RESIDENTIALLY zoned area it can't happen, as laid out in paragraph 2: "we put forth our intention not to authorize the use of eminent domain by a private developer solely for a private economic development project having no other public purpose in a residentially zoned area."...and recapped in paragraph 5: "the city has not previously used and will not in the future use its power of eminent domain to blight residential property solely for private economic development purposes." Every council since the passage of that has had to swear to uphold everything set forth by all the previous councils, so they cannot take RESIDENTIAL property for private development.

Liz, i am glad tomake the pont for you. I have only spoken to the issue as i see it. You have objection to the emminent domain clause, interferring in a free market. However, it is more complicated than that, if there had not been agreement from the owners from the beginning, this process would have never gotten off the ground. It would be unfair to the citizen owners collectively if one of the owners wanted more after the rest had signed. Where is the fairness to the other owners if one holds the entire deal from completion. I get the frustration, but from the inception, long before legislation was iniatated, the majority of owners said yes to selling. As i have stated before. It is the owners who are in favor of this, it is just unfortunate that they did not include tenents in their negotiations. But in the end the majority of owners chose to go forward and get out of the landlord business.

KJames--

There is more to how this deal got off the ground than meets they eye.

Re: this-->>>It would be unfair to the citizen owners collectively if one of the owners wanted more after the rest had signed. Where is the fairness to the other owners if one holds the entire deal from completion.<<<

I don't know what you mean by a "citizen owner" but suffice it to say that in this rigged game of legalized extortion backed by the Threat of Eminent Domain no one is treated fairly...the one or more owners who don't think the offer is adequate (and would lose if they fought it), taxpayers who are forced to provide cheap financing to a multi-million dollar developer to build a store for a multi-billion dollar global corporation, the small business that never had a shot at TIF and stand a 40% chance of shuttering their doors within 2 years if Walmart opens and the 250 residents of Clarkchester Apts. who may get shoved out on the street with $1,000 in their pocket.

I could go on, but what is the point.?...other than I find your talk of "fairness" borders on the bizarre.

How is it that Florissant was able to say "no TIF" and STILL the developer and WalMart built in THEIR community? Hmmm? How are we so weakened in our resolve and impatient about development during this horrible economy?

Why do we need 4 Walmarts within six miles of Ellisville (assuming the one proposed for the city is built)? Isn't there such a thing as oversaturating the market? There are only so many people who can/will shop at WalMart.

And... for everything we MIGHT gain from a WalMart being built in Ellisville, how many businesses and associated jobs will we lose?

How many local business people have a vested financial interest in the development? When I went to the council meeting, I wondered why the owner of Mansfield Nursery was so supportive of the development, since it would certainly cut into his plant sales. Now I've heard he (the owner) has been offered a financial incentive from some source to turn his property into a restaurant site, once the WalMart is built.

And finally... I signed a petition and voted because I thought my representative and city would support and promote my desires for the development of the city I call home. I'm SO very sad to hear that is NOT the case. That being said, I'm going to do some personal housecleaning when the next ballot comes up. Harumph!