Post-Walmart Special Election Would Cost Ellisville $8K to $10K
New information from the St. Louis County Board of Elections suggests that a special election for the city in the fallout of plans for a Walmart Superstore would cost between $8,000 and $10,000.
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Following the Ellisville City Council's decision to permit a Walmart Superstore, a recall aimed at removing the council members who supported the project could cost taxpayers between $8,000 and $10,000, a St. Louis County Board of Elections representative said Wednesday.
"That would be a minimum," elections director Rita Heard-Days said of the estimated expense.
Efforts to remove select city council members from office started earlier this month following the city council's vote to grant the developers of a Walmart Superstore a TIF or tax increment financing district. The TIF will allow the developer, The Sansone Group, to capture half of all new sales tax growth in the area of the project located southwest of Manchester and Kiefer Creek roads.
In addition to outcry from residents and business owners who criticized the city's use of the TIF, the project has come under fire due to its impact on Clarkchester Apartments and surrounding businesses, which will need to be demolished if and when the project advances.
In response, a group called the Ellisville Article 9 Alliance is pushing to remove the five city council members who supported the project from office. In accordance with the city's charter, the group in the short term is targeting Councilmembers Dawn Anglin and Troy Pieper, two of the five council members who voted 'yes' on the project who would be eligible for removal from office this fall.
Recall leader Liz Schmidt said the group ideally would add the question of a recall to ballots for an existing election, such as November's presidential elections, when voter turnout historically is high. That Nov. 6 date would conflict with recall requirements set forth in the city's charter, however, which specifies that no official can be recalled within 180 days from that official’s next election; both Anglin and Pieper are scheduled for re-election in the April 2013 municipal elections, which fall within 180 days of Nov. 6.
Heard-Days of the St. Louis County Board of Elections said a recall held independently of an existing county election date would cost the City of Ellisville between roughly $8,000 and $10,000 if applied to two of Ellisville's three voting districts. That would include the cost of paying people to work the polls, printing paper ballots, mailing election notices, transporting the voting equipment and tabulating votes.
"Those are some of the costs, not all of them, that would be associated with that process," she said. "It can be very expensive."
Heard-Days said additional costs could come from renting space for the election if public buildings were not available, among other expenses.
"So it can be quite a bit when you start adding it up."
Ellisville Finance Director Don Cary said typically, the cost of an election is split between the applicable taxing bodies, which often includes school districts, St. Louis County and the State of Missouri, among others.
"But if it's a special election, it's just the city doing it, so there's no other tax authorities to split it with," Cary said.
Liz Schmidt, who also is a resident of Clarkchester Apartments, said the cost of a special election would not deter her group's plans.
"That's not our problem," Schmidt said last week. "This is the cost of doing democracy."
Tired
8:51 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Hey Liz...
Guess you'll be forking over the cash for the election...Especially since you're so concerned with how taxpayer's money is spent...Time to call you out for the hypocrite that you are...Word to the wise E, after glancing at your photo above, I definitely wouldn't be critical of the physical appearance of any future Walmart patron...I'm just sayin...BEEP...BEEP...BEEP.
c z
3:17 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Ms. Schmidt boldly delcaring that "it's not our problem" makes her sound as if she's just in this for revenge, not democracy. Yet another reason why I can't support EA9A.
C. Panter
12:41 pm on Monday, June 11, 2012
Personal attacks are SO classless. Let's stick to the topic and facts.
Paul
9:10 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
It just doesn't seem responsible to stick the majority of city residents with a bill for something that affects such a small group. If you're not happy with your elected officials, then certainly use your vote to get them out! Just do it during the regular election cycle.
George Sackett
10:37 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Seems really expensive when Anglin is termed out anyway in the spring.
K James
11:49 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
8-10k is just the beginning. That is just the boards esrate. As he said there are other costs involved
Mike K
1:22 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Not bad if it keeps the council from giving away millions of tax dollars to developers and non-local businesses that can easily afford to develop withOUT TIF.
Concerned Ellisville Citizen
12:10 am on Friday, June 1, 2012
I don't care what it costs...keep Walmart out of my backyard, please!! Does any one on the City Council live off of Kiefer Creek??? Behind the site for the store?? This will ruin our neighborhood.
And to the person known as "Tired"...what a rude statement. You should be ashamed of yourself...must have been too "tired" when they were teaching manners.
C. Panter
12:46 pm on Monday, June 11, 2012
At least one council member does live off Kiefer Creek - Linda Reel, Ward 2. Her subdivision, however does not abutt the development property. I believe that would be just Clarkchester Apartments, Parkview Condominiums and maybe a handful of single family homes between those two developments.
E. Schmidt
8:36 am on Friday, June 1, 2012
If find it ridiculous to claim that the cost of a Special Election it too high. This is the cost of doing business in a Democracy. The citizens have a right to recall under Article 9.
Or do we only have "rights" when it is convenient for the City Council and not too expensive?
The City isn't indigent. It has a reserve fund.
I suggest we all download a city budget summary and actually read it.
E. Schmidt
11:33 am on Friday, June 1, 2012
CEC--
You and your neighbors need to attend the Planning and Zoning Meeting June 13th, 7:00 p.m. You have no buffer between you and the proposed Walmart.
When the proposed building was 120,000 sq. feet, there was at least a retaining wall landscaped berm of some kind between your area and the store. Now that it is 155,000 sq. ft. + , that berm is gone. You now have a retaining wall with the store towering above it.
Ask to see the biggest site plan map they have available at City Hall to understand just how big and tall that monster is.
K James
1:34 pm on Sunday, June 3, 2012
You all do understand that a recall will not change the development decision
Alexandra
5:45 pm on Sunday, June 3, 2012
We just GAVE away MILLIONS! What is 8-10k to protect our community from ANOTHER situation that our elected officials will decide to ignore those that elected them into office. There is over 300k in the reserves for Ellisville, we are not about to collapse. It is in the best interest of the city to remove those that do not 'term out' in the spring, but will remain in place, such as Perrillo wouldn't even motion to protect those that are not receiving relocation assistance because they moved in after a certain point. They could have, and yet again chose not to which is hurting even more people.
K James
9:10 pm on Sunday, June 3, 2012
Giving away 'millions'? Without the development there would be 0 revenue to gain. As far as not giving relocation assistance to those who have moved in after the date when everyone knew this might be a possibility, would be a waste of tax payer dollars. Heck if they wanna give me a grand, I will sign a lease right now, or sign a lease the day before the bulldozers appear. Without the TIF legislation, the homeowners would be getting NOTHING to relocate.
K James
9:38 pm on Sunday, June 3, 2012
and you do know the legislation read:get the greater of actual moving expenses (which includes a great number of things) or 1000, at the choice of the person being displaced. So in truth, they could get more than 1,000
Alexandra
7:07 am on Monday, June 4, 2012
With the development we are loosing avenues of revenue instantly. We ultimately will loose K-mart and we all know this fact. It will hurt the landscape companies and others with their 'low low prices' & majority Made in China products. As far as the move-out assistance, I guess your view on the situation is 100% clear to us all if helping those misplaced by this unfortunate business deal that the city was directly involved in is a 'waste'; essentially you are saying they are 'a waste'. Actually, the homeowners are getting market value plus 20% of the property worth to sell. The renters' get relocation, so you are clear, and the TIF has nothing to do with any of the legal aspects of the relocation. Sansone offered part of the state minimum, which is $1,000 relocation but put a block on the time frame. State min. also entitles to choose from first and last months rent but it was not in the Sansone agreement. A lot of people that are getting NOTHING.
Kate James, we all know you are linked to a lot of the council so you are trying to protect them and speak on their behalf. We all know this recall would threaten your network and community power of manipulation. We have reached a point where the people need to fight back and stand firm to protect themselves. We have reached a point where we can stand-up for what is right, and choose those that will stand-up for what is right along with us and our Mayor. The people currently sitting are in it for themselves NOT the people.
E. Schmidt
7:31 am on Monday, June 4, 2012
>>>Without the TIF legislation, the homeowners would be getting NOTHING to relocate." <<<
Of course without the TIF legislation and the Threat of Eminent Domain, Sansone and Walmart wouldn't be able to do the project and none of us would have to move..remember the "but for" provision?
(Or are you admitting that the “but for” provision is just a scam?)
Yes, they would have had to show up with bags of money to entice the owners to sell rather than wield the Threat of Eminent Domain...and the project would have never happened as Sansone and Walmart are too cheap. They would have moved on down the road to the next town full of gullible hicks who were eager to hand over a taxpayer subsidy to increase traffic and crime (while Walmart plans to abandon the store before 23 yrs. is up) rather than pay a free market rate.
And K James were still waiting on this:
>>>Or better yet, explain to us how it is not TOO BIG and will fit just fine without any zoning or code variance changes?
We're waiting...<<<
Hmmm???
Oh, and this isn't a done deal.
E. Schmidt
7:34 am on Monday, June 4, 2012
Oh, and this K James.
You haven’t said a peep about this:
>>>And let me call your attention to something most people have missed on p. 11 of the Redevelopment Agreement--
3.4 ....The parties acknowledge that the Tenant will construct the New Store on behalf of the Developer.<<<
So very interesting...
So Walmart the “Tenant” will construct the store “on behalf” of the “Devoloper” Sansone?
Do you even “get” what is going on here, K James?...having sat on the Ellisville TIF Commission and all?...being an expert and all?
K James
8:15 am on Monday, June 4, 2012
Alexandra,
Anominity gives you courage. 'linked'? Oh Alexandra, i barely know the majority of the current council. I havent been involved for 10 years. I know councilmember Pirrello form years back, so my feelings about this issue come from my belief that the council needs to do what is best for the city as a whole. A task that each and every city council member is charged with. The city plan, and The owners of all the properties involved, have known for a very very long time that redevelopment was going to be a reality at some point. The entire area has clearly been shown as a redevelopment area before i was on the council. For 6 months now i have heard a lot of 'shock and outrage' directed at the council, when you should direct your aggressions to the owners of your complex for buying into the redevelopment idea years ago and not telling you, if they didnot tell you that they were included in a redevelopment plan.
Liz as far as your comments, Keep waiting! The final plans to my knowledge have not yet been submitted to the p and z commission, so to speculate on what they are asking for at this point is purely speculation on your part. Thought you were the one who dealt in facts? Until then Liz, we wait.
E. Schmidt
12:16 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
This is not the big mystery K James would like you to believe it is.
Simply go to City Hall and ask to see the biggest "current" site map they have available. This is important if you live within a few blocks of the project including the neighborhood north of the project.
E. Schmidt
8:28 am on Monday, June 4, 2012
Not a very good dodge K James. Try gain.
But, the fact of the matter is the store is 155,000 sq. ft. It's almost lot line to lot line with barely enough room down the sides for tractor trailer semis to deliver in the back
So how does this monster get squeezed on to a lot that is clearly too small??? with no buffers between the store and the neighbors and not enough parking???
And I'm still waiting on this--
>>>You haven’t said a peep about this:
>>>And let me call your attention to something most people have missed on p. 11 of the Redevelopment Agreement--
3.4 ....The parties acknowledge that the Tenant will construct the New Store on behalf of the Developer.<<<
So very interesting...
So Walmart the “Tenant” will construct the store “on behalf” of the “Devoloper” Sansone?
Do you even “get” what is going on here, K James?...having sat on the Ellisville TIF Commission and all?...being an expert and all?<<<
E. Schmidt
11:44 am on Monday, June 4, 2012
Oh, K James,
While you are busy dialing for answers to this question:
>>>3.4 ....The parties acknowledge that the Tenant will construct the New Store on behalf of the Developer.<<<
So very interesting...
So Walmart the “Tenant” will construct the store “on behalf” of the “Devoloper” Sansone?
Hmmm ???
And trying to find a BIG MAP of the BIG BOX BEHEMOTH,...be aware that this monster it is not limited to 155, 000 sq. ft.
Yes, a lot of people have missed this too.
See Redevelopment Agreement dated March 29, 2012, pg. H-1,
EXHIBIT H, SPECIAL DEVELOPMENT CONDITIONS
Uses
>>>Not withstanding anything to the contrary, in the city’s zoning code and unless otherwise consented to the city Council, on the redevelopment of the Property for the New Store, the only permitted uses shall be the New Store and any smaller ancilliary restaurant, packaged liquor sales, barbershop or salon, photography studio, drive thru pharmacy, or bank uses, the total of which shall not exceed 160,000 square feet, exclusive of a garden center and outdoor sales area, all as depicted on the Concept Site Plan, Exhibit B. All such uses shall remain subject to the City’s land use regulations and the approval procedures required therein, and all ancillary uses, except for the garden center and the outdoor sales area, shall be physically contained within the primary structure of the New Store.<<<
Wow! Up to 160,000 sq. ft. !!!
K James
2:27 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Liz;
All developers ask for the moon, then the P and Z is charged with the task of reigning them in. They can ask all day for things that don't comply with city compliance, but especially in Ellisville, they don't get that much latitude. Business 101 Liz, ask for everything. We are very well known for being strict in our code enforcements Liz, so the tripe that you are spewing right now is pretty moot, until after P and Z has their say. So no I have no desire to discuss any of this until p and z has their say.
C. Panter
12:51 pm on Monday, June 11, 2012
In some cases, RIDICULOUSLY strict. Some poor hair salon couldn't even put out a real-estate-sized sign during prom season saying they offered hair extensions.
E. Schmidt
2:57 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Uh, K James,
Why is this proposed to happen?
[from the Development Agreement passed May 2, 2012]
>>>3.4 ....The parties acknowledge that the Tenant will construct the New Store on behalf of the Developer.<<<
So Walmart, the “Tenant,” will construct the store “on behalf” of the “Devoloper,” Sansone?
Explain that to us. [Did you even know that as a member of the Ellisville TIF Commission?]
Hmmm ??? We’re waiting…
Find that BIG BOX BEHEMOTH site map at City Hall yet? The most “current” one?
Is it still such a mystery as to what zoning changes and code variance they will likely need?
And all you have to do is call City Hall to find out what the upcoming Planning and Zoning Public Hearing is about on June 13th and the City Council Public Hearing on June 20th.
Just call 636-227-9660 and ask for extension 3800.
No need to stonewall, er uh, wait.
This is one of the funniest things I've read all day:
>>>All developers ask for the moon,...<<<
Yeah, I'd say Sansone got more than the "moon" on May 2nd...he doesn't even build the store.
>>>then the P and Z is charged with the task of reigning them in...<<<
I'd say the taxpayers of Ellisville better pay close attention and turn out in record numbers to this public hearing on Wednesday, June 13th. If they think the Planning and Zoning Commission is going to reign in Sansone Walmart, they will be sorely mistaken.
CSloan
3:09 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
It's that foolproof, last minute reigning process, Liz. Don't worry--it always works with my preschooler too. I say, "For dinner tonight you can have as much as 160 pounds of Laffy Taffy," and then I present a plate of broccoli.
E. Schmidt
3:04 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
and this....
>>>They can ask all day for things that don't comply with city compliance, but especially in Ellisville, they don't get that much latitude. Business 101 Liz, ask for everything. We are very well known for being strict in our code enforcements...<<<
This is just hysterical.
You must really think the people of Ellisville are stupid.
If this town is so tough on code enforcement then exactly why did the Brain Trust that comprises the "Walmart Five" approve a development plan and a TIF for a 155,000 sq. ft. store to be jammed on a lot that is too small for it?
E. Schmidt
3:23 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
C Sloan--
>>>It's that foolproof, last minute reigning process...<<<
You'd have thought that a Public Hearing and City Council meeting after meeting with taxpayers coming forward to say "No" would have "proofed the fools"....
Perhaps we should have you stand in and Chair the Planning and Zoning Public Hearing on June 13th. I suggest a heapin' helpin' of Brussel Sprouts (steamed, no butter or salt) followed by a Castor Oil chaser.
E. Schmidt
3:25 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
And K James,
You've still left the below unanswered....
Why is this proposed to happen?
[from the Development Agreement passed May 2, 2012]
>>>3.4 ....The parties acknowledge that the Tenant will construct the New Store on behalf of the Developer.<<<
So Walmart, the “Tenant,” will construct the store “on behalf” of the “Devoloper,” Sansone?
Explain that to us. [Did you even know that as a member of the Ellisville TIF Commission?]
Hmmm ??? We’re waiting…
E. Schmidt
5:03 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Oh and K James,
>>>so the tripe that you are spewing right now is pretty moot,<<<
I’ll have all the so-called “tripe” clearly labeled on the Walmart BIG BOX BEHEMOTH Site Map that I’ll bring with me to the Planning and Zoning Public Hearing.
Taxpayers won’t have to squint at some poorly produced site map on a Power Point presentation....or across the room from a too crowded meeting...or off some unreadable crappy 8 ½ x 11 in piece of paper like they have done at every Public Hearing and City Council meeting since this debacle began.
They’ll be able to walk right up to it and see it quite clearly and read all the detail…all the so-called “tripe.”
Because, K James just about none of the taxpayers of Ellisville has seen this
Walmart site plan up close and personal. They don't have a clue as to just how shoe-horned in this 155,000 to 160,000 sq. ft. monster is on a site that is too small to accommodate it.
E. Schmidt
9:30 am on Tuesday, June 5, 2012
And K James,
What about this? We’re all still waiting for an answer. And this has nothing to to with P&Z.
>>>So no I have no desire to discuss any of this until p and z has their say.<<<
It has to do with who is actually “building” the proposed Walmart and exactly why we are handing over a tasty TIF -- in the MILLIONS -- to a DEVELOPER WHO IS NOT ACTUALLY BUILDING THE STORE!
[from the Development Agreement passed May 2, 2012]
>>>3.4 ....The parties acknowledge that the Tenant will construct the New Store on behalf of the Developer.<<<
So Walmart, the “Tenant,” will construct the store “on behalf” of the “Devoloper,” Sansone?
I know I have that right because it is directly taken from the Agreement. Hardly tripe.
Exactly why is THAT happening??? Explain it to us.
Do you even “get” what is going on here?...
You and the other proponents? The Brain Trust that comprises the “Walmart Five?”
[Did you even know that as a member of the Ellisville TIF Commission?...being an expert regarding Business 101, asking for the moon and all?]
E. Schmidt
8:18 am on Wednesday, June 6, 2012
Funny how when you start asking the really hard questions like…
"Did you know you were giving away a tasty TIF worth MILLIONS to a Developer (Sansone), who is NOT EVEN BUILDING THE STORE for the Tenant (Walmart)?"
…people who didn't have enough good things to say about the project suddenly clam up and don't have anything to say.
Yep, written right there in black and white, on page 11 of the Development Agreement, --
>>3.4 ....The parties acknowledge that the Tenant will construct the New Store on behalf of the Developer.<<<
So, Sansone Development, aided and abetted by City Council, just held a gun to the head of Ellisville taxpayers and said, “Gimme 15 MILLION DOLLARS!” ???
…and when we protested, the City Council grabbed our wallet ???
Doesn’t sound like Sansone will even stick a shovel in the ground.
I wonder if the building trade unions understand who the "real" employer is in this deal?
MIKE K
2:05 pm on Wednesday, June 6, 2012
Did anyone else notice that St. Charles approved a TIF for a Schnucks development? Guess they are also a bunch morons like those of us in Ellisville that support the TIF for the new Walmart here, right?
Also how did that recall of Scott Walker work out for the Unions in Wisconsin? They wasted millions of their dollars. Now the loud few here in Ellisville who do not even own property want to waste thousands of Ellisville dollars for a stupid recall. Do all property owners in Ellisville, take your thousand dollars and get the heck out of our city. District 1 & 2 property owners don't need you or want you.
CSloan
4:06 pm on Wednesday, June 6, 2012
Hmm. If you're working against the moron label you may want to, oh, I don't know...read.
"St. Charles" actually voted in 2008 to put a community center in the space. They also had a TIF commission, and their commission also said...(wait for it) NO, so the city council bestowed it upon the people, just as ours did. Rather generous to call it "approval", don't you think? Ask for a community center, get a taxpayer subsidized grocery store and shopping plaza. That's totally almost kind of the same thing, right? They did manage to work back $100K for their school district that would normally just be lost to the TIF (but DESCO and Lindenwood are only paying half of that, of course), so I guess we can dial back that many notches on the moron post.
Here's what the first St. Charles Patch comment has to say on the subject:
Regina Hollrah
2:18 pm on Wednesday, June 6, 2012
Just as ordinary people do, Desco and Lindenwood should subsidize their own development. This is why this city, this county and this state are broke----we give them a pass on taxation that all the home owners are required to pay without fail. By the time this development is underway and almost completed, they will be back for more. Offer a dog a bone and he'll want them forever.
E. Schmidt
7:53 am on Thursday, June 7, 2012
>>>Also how did that recall of Scott Walker work out for the Unions in Wisconsin?<<<
If you are unconcerned about the upcoming recall elections here in Ellisville based on a gubernatorial effort hundreds of miles away, please stay home and don't bother to vote.
And I don't really care what "you" personally want or need. There are plenty of voters in District 1 and 2 who DO want a change of City City Council representation...homeowners and renters alike.
Perhaps you should look at a BIG MAP of this BIG BOX BEHEMOTH to understand just how many Dist. 2 homeowners to the south, east and west will have their quality of life and property values destroyed by this project....and that's the winning margin for a recall election right there.
Perhaps you are not aware that people are now looking at the map with the 5 redevelopment sites wondering if they are not "next." Remember that BIG PROJECTS HAVE BIG FOOTPRINTS and all that's standing between a lot of homeowners and the Threat of Eminent Domain is a lousy resolution from 2005 that's not worth the paper it's written on.
I suspect political strategy is not your strong suit...and your shrillness belies your fear.
E. Schmidt
8:44 am on Thursday, June 7, 2012
And this mike k:
>>>Perhaps I am a moron to pay $4,000 in real estate taxes every year, but there are a lot of us out here who want to see Ellisville grow and prosper rather than become a blighted community.<<<
That just illustrates how parochial the concerns of people like you can be. Little or no thought as to how it might effect other residents or even homeowners like yourself - not to mention the small business that will go under due to this project - as long as you and yours don't have to pay one more dime out of pocket, correct?
I take it you and your $4,000 a year real estate tax home are tucked safely back off Manchester or Kiefer Creek Rds. correct? Hope you don't live due south of the project. Thought about increased flooding from the project as all that water rolls to the south off all that concrete and through the watershed?
When the store grew from the original 120,000 sq. ft. to 155,000 sq. ft,, the detention pond got much smaller...so I hope the site planners made provisions to adequately deal with the storm water run-off....
Hmmm...???...Since don't seem to care about providing adequate parking or buffers, I'm sure they took care of that pesky potential flooding problem for you, right?
MIKE K
5:08 pm on Wednesday, June 6, 2012
I am a trustee of a district 2 community that has more than fifty adult supporters of the Walmart project. How many have been attending your recall meetings? A lot less than that I bet.
By the way I don't bowl, but play bridge, chess, volleyball and race my Z06 corvette on weekends. Perhaps I am a moron to pay $4,000 in real estate taxes every year, but there are a lot of us out here who want to see Ellisville grow and prosper rather than become a blighted community.
MIKE K
9:36 pm on Wednesday, June 6, 2012
How about a little side bet, say $1,000 that within a year after Walmart has their grand opening, the Moore building will be demolished and there will be new businesses at that location.
Tired
11:05 am on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Fewer and fewer people care about this...WALMART is coming...Apartment dwellers are going...And the City Of Ellisville will be better because of it...Now go to your corners, and I don't want to hear one BEEP out of any of you.
E. Schmidt
12:04 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
The People of Walmart are coming....(Perhaps...NOT a Done Deal...)
GAG...GAG...GAG
www.thepeopleofwalmart.com
Tired believes the city of ellisville will be far better off with these new shoppers...and the traffic...and the congestion...and the crime.
Tired wants our police force to become Wal-Mart's city subsidized private security.
Tired doesn't think much about the real consequences. Tired doesn't think much at all.
E. Schmidt
2:30 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
www.peopleofwalmart.com
Sorry for the misdirect....and I apologize to cartoon characters everywhere for the comment below.
E. Schmidt
12:20 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
But Tired, though you don't think much or at least very hard, I have to admire your consistent, if not insipid on-line persona.
You are truly a brave soul to hide behind a comment board moniker and continually say BEEP BEEP like a cartoon character.
It's good to know what the opposition is made of.
Susan Hunter
3:33 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
I heard from one of the owners of Clarkchester the June 13th meeting is postponed until July. It's going to happen it's just a matter of time, the owners want the money and they want out as it's too expsenive to upgrade the apartments to get higher rents and most of the owners are in their 70's so take the money...can you blame them?
Anon
3:51 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
When K-Mart goes under can we get a Sam's Club too?
CSloan
4:34 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
For more TIF, sure. You can ask for anything if you agree to chip in. How about a pony?
Tired
6:44 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Hey E...Have you heard...WALMART is coming.
E. Schmidt
6:22 am on Friday, June 8, 2012
No Tired. The www.peopleofwalmart.com are coming and bringing their mobile meth labs with them...and traffic and congestion and more crime.
Did you hear about what happened at the Walmart in Mehlville yesterday?
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2012/06/08/woman-caught-with-purse-sized-at-mehlville-walmart/
So THAT is what you want for Ellisville?
Your vision for our community is truly singular. You should run for City Council. There will be openings soon.
(Or maybe you already have run???)
E. Schmidt
6:48 am on Friday, June 8, 2012
Tired,
If I had invented a "foil" to rail against, I couldn't have done a better job in creating someone like you...and though hard to believe, you are the "real deal."
I can't help thinking your actually trying the "help" the opposition by highlighting how parochial and short sighted the proponents of the Sansone Walmart TIF are.
Please, keep up the good work.
Susan Hunter
7:22 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
There is a Sam's club near where I live and 4 blocks away a Wal-Mart and a Super Target, bring on the money!!!
E. Schmidt
7:45 am on Friday, June 8, 2012
I heard the Walmart TIF/Kiefer Creek watershed issues was all over KMOX radio yesterday.
It sounds like someone finally figured out all that additional concrete could create environmental problems for the creek and flooding problems to the south for homeowners.
Yes...Great Environmental Degradation and Great Flooding to go along with "Great Streets" and "Great Tax Giveaway."
If anyone finds links with details, please post.
Anon
7:49 am on Friday, June 8, 2012
HA! I was wondering how long it would take for someone to bring up the mobile meth lab and Wal-Mart! Now we're going to have a BIG BOX STORE with METH and POOR DRAINAGE that is going to flood Polo Lake and wipe out most of the city south of Manchester. Do this: Google KMart Stabbing and see how many results pop up for people that have been stabbed at K-Marts. Now I'm afraid of knife wielding lunatics roaming the K-Mart parking lot because obviously that's the type of behavior that K-Mart attracts. Instead of posting big box store paranoia, maybe you should search sites like RYDER or U-HAUL or TWO MEN AND A TRUCK. Wal-Mart is coming.
E. Schmidt
10:51 am on Saturday, June 9, 2012
From Jimmy C back in May:
>>>...I do appologize for degrading Walmart shoppers but the fact of the matter is..... Walmart brings tons of arrests and problems to a community, ie shop lifters, thieves fellons, and riff raff no matter what age, race, gender. That is a fact jack.
Traffic Impact:
•An average size Walmart Supercenter will generate nearly 10,000 car trips per day. (1)(2)
•A Walmart Supercenter often has between seven and nine tractor-trailer deliveries daily, as well as one or two smaller trucks delivering products from vendors. (3)
Crime Statistics:
•In 2004, there were a reported 148, 331 police calls across 514 Walmart stores analyzed.
That equates to an average of 269 calls per store. (4)....<<<
Meth labs in a bottle are only a small part of the problems this proposed Wal-Mart will bring to Ellisville.
E. Schmidt
7:55 am on Friday, June 8, 2012
Ethos,
Filling in for Tired?
Please keep up the good work.
Tired
11:43 am on Friday, June 8, 2012
HEY E...WALMART IS STILL COMING....................
E. Schmidt
10:52 am on Saturday, June 9, 2012
Delayed for a month...a year...FOREVER...???
This ain't a Done Deal...
MIKE K
4:22 pm on Saturday, June 9, 2012
Must be nice living in a fantasy world.
Stick a fork in it, the Walmart deal is done
E. Schmidt
4:39 pm on Saturday, June 9, 2012
>>>Stick a fork in it, the Walmart deal is done<<<
Half-baked at best.
E. Schmidt
4:47 pm on Saturday, June 9, 2012
A nugget from Jimmy C again--
>>>Nationally, Walmart stores cost taxpayers an estimated $77 million annually in increased police costs.(4)<<<
I wonder what the Ellisville subsidized portion of that will be if this debacle goes though ???
And of course, the TIF'fed portion won't cover those increased expenses for turning the City of Ellisivlle Police Force into Wal-Mart's publicly subsidized "rent-a-cops" ...so, exactly where is the money to pay for those additional "call for service" coming from ???
Take a guess...
Anon
5:00 pm on Saturday, June 9, 2012
Good point E. I guess the city should keep that $10,000.00 that they would have to spend on your recall election for all these Wal-Mart crimes. The deal is done. Wal-Mart is coming.
E. Schmidt
5:21 pm on Saturday, June 9, 2012
Ethos,
You’re a quite a “character,” now aren’t you?...Another gutless wonder hiding behind an internet moniker.
>>> Good point E. I guess the city should keep that $10,000.00 that they would have to spend on your recall election for all these Wal-Mart crimes. The deal is done. Wal-Mart is coming."<<<
Why don’t you ask the Chief what a “call for service” costs the City of Ellisville?
He’s no dummy. He knows what this is gonna cost on a year-in-year-out basis.
I suspect no one has bothered to ask him.
$10,000 applied against an average of >>>…269 calls per store. (4)....<<< will barely get the Ellisville PD through the first few months...IF this debacle opens its doors.
You think cops are cheap ??? You think cops work for Wal-Mart wages ??? You think cops don't want or deserve health care or a retirement package ???
Go ahead. Just ask the Chief.
Let us know what he tells you.
MIKE K
10:00 pm on Sunday, June 10, 2012
Let's see, you call supporters of Walmart in Ellisville "unreal, gutless wonders, foils, rude, stupid characters, and other demeaning adjectives." I'm quite tired of your slurs against good people on this site that disagree with your position. I have one son and two daughters who are very successful practicing lawyers. I will be reviewing with them a potential lawsuit regarding defamation of character. You are not the only one living in Ellisville with legal recourse on this issue.
E. Schmidt
6:43 am on Monday, June 11, 2012
Yes. Do that and get back with me.
"Foil"?
"Gutless wonder" to someone hiding behind an internet moniker?
You'll be laughed out of court.
And of course that would require many of you to step forward and out of the shadows. Willing to do that are you?
Again, nice to know what the opposition is made of.
E. Schmidt
7:02 am on Monday, June 11, 2012
I truly believe your lawyer-son's time would be better spent trying to recover some of that 90 MILLION dollars in stolen wages Wal-Mart took from Missouri employees like himself or his fellow employees (who didn't go on to "make it big" in the world of law.)
Wal-Mart gave up and settled in 2009 when it realized its own internal security devices would "rat them out" and prove they made employees work for "free."
Perhaps the settlement fund is still open for claims.
The courts are for "real" justice...not "hurt feelings."
MIKE K
11:57 am on Monday, June 11, 2012
You just don't get it do you, it's not about money, it's about the principle of the matter.
I didn't appreciate the labor unions bringing in outside agitators to our town hall meetings to shout down the supports of Walmart project. You might say, I'm just standing up for the home owner citizens of Ellisville who have a much greater stake in the long term future of Ellisville compared to a group of transient renters.
MIKE K
12:08 pm on Monday, June 11, 2012
defamation in Missouri - statements that tend to hold the victim (myself) up to contempt, hatred, ridicule, or cause him to be shunned or avoided. It tends to injure his reputation, to diminish the respect, goodwill and confidence in which the victim is held in the eyes of others. ----- see you in court
E. Schmidt
2:19 pm on Monday, June 11, 2012
Uh, mike k,
Nobody knows who you are...you are also hiding behind an internet moniker...
So, I think you need to read the law a little for carefully and be aware that...generally, a statement made about an undefinable group of people or organizations cannot be defamation...
Just like the so-called horribly aggrieved proponents of Wal-Mart on the Patch comment boards who do not use their real names.
Now there's a wronged class of people if there ever was one.
And kudos to Jimmy C for catching this:
>>>mike k, things you have said…. "you are a disgusting human being," (defamation with malice...)<<<
You go get 'em Jimmy C.
This would truly be hilarious if 250 people weren't in danger of being put out on the street.
Yes, see you in court...whoever you are...because you're unidentifiable...Doh!
C. Panter
12:54 pm on Monday, June 11, 2012
For me, it all starts with the idea that we don't need 4 WalMarts within just six miles of Manchester/Clarkson. That would really have the market over-saturated. Where do Sansone/Wal-Mart think the customers are going to come from?
E. Schmidt
10:34 am on Wednesday, June 13, 2012
This proposed debacle will simply cannibalize shoppers from other Wal-Marts.
When shoppers figure out they have to pay a whopping 10.175% sales tax to shop at not-so-special Wal-Mart Supercenter, the novelty will wear off quickly.
Save money? Pay it out in higher taxes? They think people are stupid.
And the store clearly doesn't have enough parking at either 4.25 or 4.5 spaces per 1,000 sq. ft. (depending on which site plan you look at.)
When traffic backs up down Manchester during peak shopping times and days at that 4 way stop light, smart shoppers won't bother trying to get in and out of the store. They'll just blow through down Manchester as best they can.
And the shoppers who do bother to get into the store will take a short cut down Weis Ave. to avoid the corner of Clarkson and Manchester Rds.
Those unfortunate people who live to the north are gonna have a 4 way stop light feeding short cut traffic directly into their neighborhood.
Even access and egress for the Ellisville PD will be dicey. Weis Rd. is way too narrow to allow them to negotiate that new four way corner with heavy traffic in an emergency.
They can run their lights and sirens all they want...it won't make Weis Rd. any wider...
And forget about making a left and parking at Barney's BBQ...or worse, trying to back out of the lot onto Weis Ave. to leave.
C. Panter
12:56 pm on Monday, June 11, 2012
...and what's with the zoning/planning signs on BOTH sides of Manchester near the site? No one in these meetings has said anything about re-development on the north side!
E. Schmidt
8:00 am on Tuesday, June 12, 2012
C. Panter,
Please call the number on the sign and attend the July 11 Planning and Zoning Public Hearing.
Just call 636-227-9660 and ask for extension 3800. Listen to the recording.
I wish I had more details myself.
You can ask why the city but signs on both side of Manchester.
Charles Pavlack
1:31 pm on Wednesday, June 13, 2012
The zoning signs on the north side of Manchester are for Ruby's Guns, which has an application for a conditional use permit before the City Council (with a positive recommendation from the P&Z Commission) at their next meeting.
The same generic signs are used for any Zoning matter before either the Council or the P&Z. There are also signs up by Five Guys, for a Dunkin' Donuts CUP to be considered at that same Council meeting.
Jimmy C
1:27 pm on Monday, June 11, 2012
mike k, things you have said…. "you are a disgusting human being," (defamation with malice...) "Lets make a $1000 side bet" (illegal online gambling proposition on local government business) " I race my Z06 corvette on weekends." (Maybe illegal if you do it off a track… but in my opinion we will file this comment between douche and bag.) Labor unions DID NOT bring any reps to the meetings. They should have, however. I believe you are an idiot. What character?? You are just an avatar. You are not even using a real name. you are just mike k. you could file a case that she is discriminating all the mike k’s in the world. you will still get laughed out of court.
CSloan
2:58 pm on Monday, June 11, 2012
"...compared to a group of transient renters"
Wow. It takes a special kind of [insert defamatory word of choice] to toss this out in reference to 250 who are being displaced and wouldn't be leaving otherwise. Not the language of a good Lutheran, mike.
You're close, Jimmy C, but I think we file the car between "mid-life crisis" and "crippling insecurity".
E. Schmidt
3:20 pm on Monday, June 11, 2012
Some of those so-called "transient renters" have been here at Clarkchester going on 20 years (older ladies) other 15 years, 10-12 years...etc... I am a relative newcomer by comparison.
The snottiness and superiority issues displayed by some unidentifiable persons hiding behind internet moinkers are truly stunning...and a little embarrassing,
E. Schmidt
3:35 pm on Monday, June 11, 2012
mike k,
>>>You just don't get it do you, it's not about money, it's about the principle of the matter.<<<
It's ALL about the money...and that's why so-called "principles" got trashed...using the Treat of Eminent Domain to put 250 people out on the street didn't seem to bother the masterminds of the plan.
MIKE K
6:21 pm on Monday, June 11, 2012
So much venom from you three. Yes, the Unions did bring in members to disrupt our town hall meetings. I talked to several of them who said they lived in Pacific but were told by their union bosses to show up at our meetings and shout down the Walmart proponents. I'm just glad nobody got beat up like that African American did by Union thugs at the St. Louis tea party rally in 2009.
E. Schmidt
6:32 am on Tuesday, June 12, 2012
>>>So much venom from you three.<<<
Uh mike k...we aren't the ones threatening nuisance defamation lawsuits on behalf of cowards hiding behind internet monikers....the so-called >>>good people on this site that disagree with your position<<<
Step forward from the shadows and tell us who you really are.
Then we may have something to talk about.
MIKE K
3:22 pm on Wednesday, June 13, 2012
You can't handle the truth.
E. Schmidt
7:23 pm on Monday, June 11, 2012
Well when mike k serves me with his defamation lawsuit on behalf of all the unidentifiable, undefinable Wal-Mart proponents on the Patch comments board, I'll let all you so-called "Union thugs" know who mike k in fact is. You can then call your locals and internationals to notify the attorneys.
Since I know quite a few Ellisville union members and also know that you are not "thugs," this will get interesting.
Gee mike k, I think you just had a pot-kettle-black moment...but I'm sure it's lost on you.
Tired
8:24 pm on Monday, June 11, 2012
Hey E...You're still here?...I heard you were moving, because, WALMART IS COMING.
E. Schmidt
6:20 am on Wednesday, June 13, 2012
Since this comments section originally involved recall...
Yesterday Petitioners' Committees from District 1 and District 2 filed affidavits to recall Dawn Anglin and Troy Pieper as it their right under Article 9.
The committees are requesting a special election date of Tuesday, October 2, 2012. The committees are aware that the City Council has the ability to authorize special elections for municipal purposes and also has a reserve fund.
The committees fully expect the City Council to approve the special election date and funding at the next City Council meeting June 20th and not thwart direct democracy.
The right of citizens to direct democracy guaranteed in any city charter are not dependent on the convenience of government or the whim of popular opinion.
MIKE K
3:24 pm on Wednesday, June 13, 2012
You think the council is going to approve the special election. Good luck with that.
E. Schmidt
1:31 pm on Thursday, June 14, 2012
They can choose to abide by the law in Article 9 of the City Charter or not.
As I said, guaranteed rights are not dependent on the convenience of government or the whim of popular opinion.
They can do the right thing or not...and let the chips will fall where they may.
It's really that simple.
MIKE K
1:53 pm on Thursday, June 14, 2012
Even if you by some miracle recall Ms. Dawn Anglin, I plan to run for her vacated position. I have contacted the Koch brothers and they have agreed to fund my campaign.
E. Schmidt
2:07 pm on Thursday, June 14, 2012
Then the attorneys for the locals and internationals representing the "union thugs" you mentioned will finally know where to direct their nuisance defamation lawsuits.
Stepping out of the shadows in a big way, no?
No more hiding...good for you.