The Fiscal Cliff And Expiring Tax Cuts For The Rich: A Common Sense Solution From A No-Nonsense Guy
As a good Democrat, I agree with Obama that letting the tax-cuts of the rich expire (and the experts say there are not enough deductions to accomplish the same thing through limiting them) and using that money to reduce the debt, or for teachers, infrastructure and such stimulus, or to avoid tax increases for the middle-class who spend a higher portion of their income and thus the money would help the economy improve faster, is the sounder fiscal policy.
But the Republicans in the House are dead-set against it to protect their rich Republican friends.
And playing chicken with the fiscal cliff doesn't seem to most to be a good idea.
So will one of those Phi Beta Kappa Mensas on either side of the aisle in DC please suggest that the two sides split the difference and let 1/2 the tax-cuts for the rich expire, and the other half continue for some reasonable period of time, and let's move on to deductions and other issues to avoid the fiscal cliff disaster? Whichever side proposes it first will gain lots of capital (not Bain Capital) with the voters, and woe be unto the other side that opposes such a reasonable and natural compromise, in my opinion.
Bill Haas
St. Louis
runbillrun.com
“First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win.” Mahatma Gandhi
Scott Simon
12:10 am on Friday, November 16, 2012
Ronald Reagan and John Kennedy had common sense. And it didn't involve tax hikes.
PaulRevere
7:58 pm on Sunday, November 18, 2012
Democrats criticized the Bush tax cuts ever since 2001 law was passed.
It was to expire on 2011 (Ten years).
Obama and the Democrats always declared- "THE BUSH TAX CUTS WERE FOR THE RICH". Have Democrats been telling LIES?
So here is my Question:
IF THE BUSH TAX CUTS WERE ONLY FOR THE RICH--Why all this fuss about extending those cuts only for the under $250K earner?
I thought BUSH CUTS were For the RICH. that is what the Democrats have been saying for years.
Apparently, the middle-class tax cuts were substantial enough for Obama to now declare KEEPING ONLY THOSE CUTS From expiring.
DECEIT--Still at work.
Bill Haas
8:16 pm on Sunday, November 18, 2012
I'll do the heavy thinking around here, please, sir.
Sensible? I think so
9:15 pm on Sunday, November 18, 2012
Please do, Bill. PLEASE!!!!
PaulRevere
8:07 pm on Sunday, November 18, 2012
Amazing how those use of Tax funds can be used--"FOR TEACHERS".
What about Janitors, Dishwashers, Store clerks, New candy production machinery, new free gasoline days.
Just why do Teachers always make the list for new TAXes.
Missouri's Teachers are the most highly paid Worker in Missouri.
DO THEY NEED MORE PAY?
What about building MORE Highways, bridges? Anyone ever think about that.
Bill Haas
8:16 pm on Sunday, November 18, 2012
infrastructure good, Paul; let us know when you see the British. one by land, two by sea, three by air and like that.
Christine Stewart Mehigh
6:13 am on Monday, November 19, 2012
Missouri teachers are also some of the lowest paid in the nation. Your question "Do they need more pay" is absurd. Let's rephrase that to "do we need the best and the brightest teaching our children?" Do we care about the future of our communities or not?
Bill Haas
8:15 pm on Sunday, November 18, 2012
Paul Revere needs to stick to telling us when the British are coming; and I'll do the heavy thinking around here, thank you. and for Scott Simon, these arent tax cuts they're expiration of tax cuts. taxes always going up and down; not an exact science; no monopoly on wisdom of what is idea; but middle class spend more, higher percentage, than wealthy, important in recovering from a recession.
PaulRevere
8:30 pm on Sunday, November 18, 2012
solutions:
1) All unemployment checks should be equal.
($200 weekly for every person.)
2) Any worker now exempt from social security (e.g. Missouri Teachers), come under the same social security laws as Every working American.
3) All Federal and state Government workers take immediate 10% pay cuts-across the board.
4) No more social security raises to anyone having over $50,000 of income.
5) All State Govt workers pay should be limited to maximum of 1.5 times the average wage earner in the state.
6) All social security taxes should stay and be invested within the state of origination.
(All those funds would be invested in that state)
7) No more State taxes based on "Wealth". Autos , homes would be tax exempt.
8) Public schools would be Free only for those earning less than $50,000.
9) All children born out of wedlock to any person under 18 years old become the property of the State to be put up for adoption. Unless a signed support proof is on record. Yep! controversy here.
10) Welfare checks in any form must be annually proven and matched to income of recipient.
11) Welfare should be reduced to Food, Govt sponsored shelter , and in kind-clothing
No cash.
12) All congressmen will take 30% cuts in Pay. (For doing the worst job in history)
13) Govt pensions should not exceed ordinary worker social security pensions.
14) Eliminate the 7.5% medical non-deductible.
15) Every income earner must pay a mandatory 5% minimum Income tax.
Sensible? I think so
9:38 pm on Sunday, November 18, 2012
I like some of those ideas. My guess is that they're not enough to balance the budget because they don't touch defense spending.
Are you aware that Missouri is a net drain on the Federal budget?
$48.6M in revenue, $55.6M in spending, for a net per capita contribution of -$1,190 in 2007. I'd be careful opening the door to financial independence for each state.
I agree with Bill that #9 has to go. (I wouldn't call it genocide. Just vile social policy.)
Bill Haas
8:43 pm on Sunday, November 18, 2012
thoughtful; maybe 1/2 of them good, maybe more. #9 is genocide of sorts; always attractive in a would-be candidate. How about free birth control? it works.
otherwise, you might want to be part of those about to secede; test it out, let us know how it works. and thanks for the dialogue; now to GoodWife and Mentalist. real entertainment! best, Bill
PaulRevere
8:51 pm on Sunday, November 18, 2012
Bill Haas:
Would you like to put the total taxes that would be collected from the RICH?
Then, would you actually divide that up into all those things you want to improve?
Fair share has been used loosely by Democrats as a way to make your troops feel good?
CASE:
10 persons have the same meal at one table in a restaurant.
The total Bil is $300.
What is each person's Fair share?
Now what if 9 persons each earned $100,000 and 1 earned $1million dollars, would the fair share change?
None of your comments come close to solving this enormous fiscal cliff DEBT of the USA.
While you are at it, do you know how many Millionaires/Billionaires America Has?
Mike K
12:27 am on Monday, November 19, 2012
What about capping deductions?
*AND* counting the discounted tax rate on capital gains as a deduction.
*AND* applying that AMT - Alternative Minimum Tax - that the Romneys et al debt pay either.
And stop calling it 'raising taxes'. It is allowing an entitlement program for the wealthy to end.
And if leaving the Bush tax breaks expire will cost jobs, where are all the jobs that were created by them for the last ten years?
Mike K
12:31 am on Monday, November 19, 2012
Here is what will actually happen. Washington will do nothing.
We will go off the fiscal cliff. Taxes will automatically go up.
Then the republicans will agree to put *some* of the tax cuts back into place.
That way they have cover for their pledges to not raise taxes - they would be *lowering* them.
Shakespeare was right. They all are utter failures as congresscritters.
RDBet
10:21 am on Monday, November 19, 2012
Water under the bridge, but it should be noted that the Bush Tax Cuts were a minor fiasco. Back then with the economy churning along, people could afford to pay higher taxes. It was a major shift to supply side economics. The bulk of the cuts went to the wealthy. It was one factor in creating the overall economic bubble that burst in 2008.
Then with the economy in tatters in 2008, we did not have the option of cutting taxes significantly to stimulate the economy -because Bush had already cut them to historic lows starting in 2001.
And with partisan politics, both parties have been full participants in putting government in this position.
PaulRevere
11:54 am on Monday, November 19, 2012
"Heavy Thinker": You are full of Talking points! (Bain-Tax the RICH-experts say--undefined Middle-class sympathy-BUSH cuts for the RICH).
Care to define "fair share"?.
flyoverland
6:17 pm on Monday, November 19, 2012
The Bush/Obama tax cuts, if restored only on the "rich," will not make a dent in the debt. It is populist, feel good propaganda. Folks, your politicians, of both parties have spent so much money we didn't have that every one of us are going to have to pay more for many years to dig ourselves out. Geithner had hoped we could inflate our way out of this, however, the Obama policies on regulation and ObamaCare have kept a lid on our economic growth and our ability to allow prices to rise. Too many people are on the dole and they would not be able to survive if we saw inflation of the kind needed to allow our debt to be retired with diluted currency. So, the best way to stay in power is to employ class envy. Ask yourself if it makes any sense? If you were a manufacturer of a product, what good does it do you for consumers to be unable to buy what you make? Corporate America wants consumers to prosper. Punishing success is simply a way to keep re-electing the same dopes who ran us into this hole.
flyoverland
12:05 pm on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
I see you stopped reading my post when it stopped agreeing with you. If you read it, you would see I said EVERYONE is going to have to start paying more. EVERYONE. Not just "the rich." Is that too difficult a concept to grasp? It is not just "an idea," it is a "big idea." The problem with this country is nobody wants to pay taxes. Nearly half the country does not pay any Federal income taxes and they just scream "the rich" are the problem. You want this deficit fixed Tout de suite? Do exactly what we do in business. You call in every manager of every department and tell them to cut five percent. You give them a week. You tell them if they can't make the cuts, you will do it for them and the first one will be them. No one can tell me there isn't five percent waste in every part of our government. The people in these departments know where the waste resides. They will never surrender until they are threatened with termination themselves. It works every time in the real world. It can work in government. How's that? By the way, Simpson Bowles doesn't go far enough. We'll still be in a hole for years.
RDBet
12:31 pm on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
Good luck trying to cover the deficit with more taxes from households earning less than 50K per year.
By the way, that demographic which you seem obsessed with does pay taxes -social security, medicare sales taxes etc etc. Add those up and you may find their tax rate is higher than a billionaire non-working investor.
As far as being in the hole for years, that is simply the way it has to be-unless you propose ending social security and medicare tomorrow, as well as all defense spending.
It's a complicated problem -we live in a world with limited resources. I recognize that taxation of the wealthy alone will not solve it. Nevertheless, you incessantly whine on about the persecution of the wealthy and offer no feasible direction.
flyoverland
12:58 pm on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
Pal, you are incapable of carrying on a rational discussion. You don't read before you blab. I said I would CUT ALL FEDERAL SPENDING BY FIVE PERCENT. I also said, nearly half the people in the country pay no FEDERAL INCOME TAX. Ninety-nine percent probably do not have a hunting license (which is a tax), but that isn't what we are talking about. We are talking about the FEDERAL INCOME TAXES. The only way you are going to solve the problem is for everyone to pay more. That means you are going to have to pay more, as much as you would like me to pay your share. You will pay. There's no getting out of it. You are going to have to reach into your pocket like everyone else and you are going to have to get by with less Federal largesse for a while. Please do not respond to me again. You simply ignore facts and create your own. I am tired of trying to educate you and I am done wasting my time.
RDBet
1:30 pm on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
I'm fully aware of 50% not paying FIT. Personally I pay more (1040 line 61) federal income tax than a poverty level family of 4 has income for a year. Can you say the same....or ha ha- are you mooching off me? I fully expect to be paying more going forward.
What facts have I created flyoverland? The wealthy will have to pay more taxes, this does not preclude other classes from paying higher taxes - it just means that other classes have less wherewithal to pay more. Spending cuts, yes - cut away -over time - and we'll have to go after the big ones - military, social security, medicare.
And yeah, I won't respond to you anymore - so you can enjoy more quality time with Paul Revere.
PaulRevere
12:38 pm on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
Flyoverland says it straight and factual.
As I stated-----The fiscal-cliff is Now a "Fiscal-Canyon"
Government workers/Public service employees need to take substantial cuts in PAY and BENEFITS.
That is numero-Uno FIX.
RDBet
12:53 pm on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
Pie anyone?
Overall spending pie chart
http://underthemountainbunker.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/1-14.jpg
federal discretionary spending pie chart
http://www.pgpf.org/Chart-Archive/~/media/PGPF/Chart-Archive/0070_Discretionary-Breakdown-crop.gif?w=675&h=370&as=1
PaulRevere
6:43 pm on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
Pie charts are "crust" without the filling.
Charts mean nothing, unless you see that Govt employee Payroll/Benefits and vacations and health insurance are all lumped in those big soc sec and medicare numbers.
That is why Insurance companies can handle the whole process "CHEAPER".
Our Govt is hiding the "Administration" payroll in your "Pie" Pieces.
So, I would challenge you to get etails of every expense included in the social security budget. You would be amazed how much is NOT going to the Retirees. Need a start? RENTS! need more? Computers , technology, consultants, internet, Administrator PAYROLLS, Pensions, more!! more!!.
It's the biggest rip off happening to YOU and I. Yet blind-mind zealots like you refuse to listen to the truth. Only someone who "drinks the blood of Govt." would ignore the comments of others trying to present alternative facts. Is that YOU.?
It takes manpower, property and equipment to RUN any Program-- The Govt does not care what they pay , because it is NOT their money.
Just what can't you understand.?
Ever consider:
Eliminating the whole soc sec admin would save Billions/Trillions over 10 years.
Entitlements are Annuities, private sector expertise. Retirees could have commercial-annuities.
Our Senators and Congressmen (R's & D's) know diddly how to FIX something THEY THEMSLEVES Created.
La-La land congress with non-executive leadership will not FIX anything.
Too many chiefs-not enough Indians. Zero business minds
MIKE K
11:00 pm on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
I initially believed Obama's intent was to destroy this country by turning it into a socialist welfare state as punishment of the whites in America for their ancestors enslaving blacks. Now that he has been re-elected we shall see if he is willing to work with Congress to bring the deficit under control through tax hikes and entitlement cuts in order to save the US dollar and prevent a total economic collapse. I'm concerned he will however even push for higher taxes on the wealthy and combine that with additional give away programs to the leaches of our society resulting in muti trillion dollars deficits that will crush our economy. Which will win out, the desire to preserve this country as a land of opportunity for his children or turning this country into a socialist wasteland. I hope for the best but fear the worse.
MIKE K
11:56 pm on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
sorry, I meant to say leeches of society not leaches. However, the best way to remove a leech is find the orafice where the leech is feeding, use a tool to dislodge the leech from the area in which he sucking, and flick him off quickly as the leech will attempt to reattach itself. Very similiar to trying to dislodge our gimmie gimmie you owe me American underclass from our free phone, free health care, free food stamps, free welfare government programs wouldn't you say.
Jim Davis
8:56 am on Wednesday, November 21, 2012
Does some of the commentary coming out of Washington sound scarily, eerily familiar? Isn't that how many dictatorships or take overs get started, by inflaming the passions of the masses? Telling them that the privileged classes are the enemy? It's a proven formula for success; for those seeking power. Our leaders need to start leading and stop pandering to base and/or basic human weaknesses, such as suggesting that government programs are free. Hopefully our leaders will get the message.
MIKE K
9:43 am on Wednesday, November 21, 2012
I doubt it. I understand Obama has already started his campaign for four more years