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Clarkchester Residents Protest Ellisville Walmart

Signs shown to drivers along Manchester Road included 'No Walmart Here' and 'Rescind the TIF'

Less than a dozen people attempted to rally drivers on Manchester Road on Friday against a Walmart Superstore recently .

The group was largely composed of residents of Clarkchester Apartments, a 150-unit apartment complex that is one of to be demolished if the project moves forward.

In addition to objecting to Clarkchester's demolition, residents held signs opposing the —an economic development incentive provided to the project's developer, the Sansone Group, who will collect half of all new sales tax generated at the site for a default length of 23 years. The issue also has led to the formation of the "," a group that aims to have the five city council members who voted in favor of the Walmart project.

E. Schmidt May 28, 2012 at 07:32 PM
And yes, K James, I have a problem with white collar wage thieves who steal from employees, practice tax dodging and them come begging for taxpayer handouts. I'm surprised you don't. If K-Mart and/or their developer were asking for a TIF, I would have the same ideological objection...because it's about TIF and the Threat of Eminent Domain. It's all made more heinous and disgusting because it involves Walmart, with 2011 revenues of $419 BILLION. And perhaps you've failed to note that K-Mart doesn't stoop to the lowest, law-suitable practices imaginable to make to make a buck.
Kel May 28, 2012 at 07:33 PM
Fact: The relocation expenses specified in the ordinance are the GREATER of $1000 or the actual moving expenses. It’s Missouri Revised Statutes Section 523.205.6. Fact: Wal-Mart is coming. It will bring tax dollars into the City that are needed. Recalling officials will not stop this. Fact: Of the two officials targeted for recall, one of them (Dawn Anglin) is term limited out of office as of next April. Attempting to recall her is simply an expensive, mean spirited attempt at retaliation for one vote. Name three votes that ANY of the council members have made other than on this development that would cause one to think about recalling them? Fact: The City gets tax money from residences but not near the money it gets from retail sales tax. Building new apartments, condos, homes will NOT help the city financially like retail sales will. Fact: The opponents of this development keep saying the majority of the city opposes this project. The majority of the city did NOT vote in the last election. The majority of the city has never attended a city council meeting. The majority of the city has shown by their inaction that either they simply don’t care or they approve of the project and don’t feel the need to speak out. Continued on the next comment...
Kel May 28, 2012 at 07:38 PM
Opinion: This council has consistently done their best for the best interest of the city. I’m very sorry that residents are being displaced, but these residents are renters, not tax payers and there are other options available to them. I have heard residents say they can’t afford any other apartments in the city. Could that be because the apartments weren’t kept up and upgraded because the owners knew they were in a redevelopment district and didn’t want to spend the money? I’m tired of hearing that the City Council is heartless and the members don’t give a damn about their City or constituents. That could be further from the truth. This vote was very hard for every member of that council, but they had to do what they thought was best for the city, the whole city. Opinion: I keep hearing from Liz Schmidt about eminent domain and how the owners were mislead. I personally have spoken to at least five of the owners of Clarkchester (these people own a vast majority of the buildings) and have been told they are happy with the deal put in front of them. Be done. Let it go. Let's embrace the fact that we can shop in our own community and keep the tax dollars here to improve our lives. I rarely shop in any other community, I am constantly teased by how many people I know when shopping at Dierberg's or knowing who to call because I bowl with someone who has a certain business. This is what community is all about.
Jimmy C May 29, 2012 at 07:23 AM
Kel- Fact- Elected officials are to listen to their constituents. Question- Were you at the council meetings? If Pirrello uses the old "Well, 70% approves of the project based off a public hearing... you know... the one that I polled the audience 'all those in favor of new development?"....... Who the hell would oppose that argument? The only reason it wasn't 100% is because he happen to throw walmart as the potential tenant into the equation. People hate walmart.... so there is your 30% deferred. Fact- They make TIFs so complex that small people like you think it is ok to just 'let it go' and follow the shiny object.... Fact- Unless u r a felon, vote or shut up. Dont vote? The argument is dead to me. Fact- Do we really need to pay a Fortune 2 to serve their customers? Fact- The easiest solution to the problem is to listen to the overwhelming majority of the people who live in your city. THEY could have voted no... Fact- Like any organization, if you screw up at your job you will get fired. Councilmembers are no different. What a screw up..... investigation. Fact- There are 5 redevelopment areas for potential development, same situation can occur. I hope you don't live in one. Opinion- you must be an alderman/council member with an alias, you are drinking the political koolaid. Are you really this dense?
E. Schmidt May 29, 2012 at 05:11 PM
Kel- (or Kelly Pavlack or who ever you are...) You are certainly entitled to your own opinions...and apparently think you are entitled to you own facts as well. I have much better things to do with my time than refute the misrepresentations you just listed above. But, I will take on one of them: >>>Fact: Wal-Mart is coming...<<< This is NOT A DONE DEAL...as you and some of the other proponents so desperately want the rest of us to believe. There are code variances that have to clear the Planning and Zoning Commission and the City Council before Sansone can squeeze this BIG BOX BEHEMOTH on a site that is clearly way too small to accommodate it. That Wednesday, June 13th 7:00 p.m. Planning and Zoning Public Hearing should be quite an event regarding the code variances on the parking, buffers, etc... I'm sure than Planning and Zoning Commissioners are getting an earful already. Planning and Zoning Commission Members Carl Hoffman Skip Adams Dan Duffy Charles Pavlack Greg Sanborn Nanci Sticksel Chris Turner James Poisso Richard Lacaille
mike k May 29, 2012 at 06:12 PM
guess you are going to bully all the Planning and Zoning Commissioners too, right?
CSloan May 29, 2012 at 06:44 PM
What a treat to be joined by Kel, Legend of Dierberg's. I keep forgetting to grossly inflate my sense of self importance because I own property, pay taxes, and vote. "Be done. Let it go"? If the conversation is bothering you, you can always leave the room. There are plenty of us who meet your criteria for having an opinion (see above), don't care for the deal at all, and are tired of the nauseating suggestion that the electeds who pushed this through should all be given hugs for making such an agonizing decision. Shockingly, your community is bigger than your bowling league. As long as we're establishing what community is all about, let's not forget that it is also okay for communities to get "riled up" from time to time. Or maybe we should just skip all that and propose a new town slogan--Ellisville: We shut up and take it.
K James May 30, 2012 at 12:48 AM
Richard LaCaille is no longer on the Planning and Zoning commission. Just an FYI for ya Liz,
K James May 30, 2012 at 01:30 AM
CSloan, I like your style. I was told once that Ellisville's slogan was "a sleeply little town that sold cars." or "The Passthrough to Wildwood," I know that some people don't like the idea of having a Walmart. But like it or not Walmart will make Ellisville a 'destination' not a passthrough. As Clarkson Valley is considering being swallowed up, they never considered Ellisville, the talk in the article was all about merging into Wildwood or Chesterfield. Made me feel sad that we were brushed off as insignificant. Maybe you hate the idea of Walmart, but I do not, I hope that bringing in a big box store will take us out of being a passthrough, in into a DESTINATION location. Yes, I like the idea of being a small little hamlet, but I don't like the idea of not being economically feasible into the future. Ellisville for the most part, has 2 revenue streams, Clarkson and Manchester Roads. There was a time when Clarkson road was full of small houses between Manchester and Clayton. Now it is almost solely commercial. The sad fact is that Clarkchester, is going to be redeveloped, if not now, then soon. The Manchester corridor is just too highly visible. The owners of the complex knew it, and from the ones that I spoke to are pleased with the sales price they will be receiving. You can deamonize Wallyworld all day long, they probably deserve some of it maybe more, but America shops there.
K James May 30, 2012 at 01:40 AM
Liz; I am not sure where you are getting your information, but there are no final plans for review at this time? Are you getting some insider information from somewhere?
K James May 30, 2012 at 01:49 AM
and I took that comment as $ MW
K James May 30, 2012 at 02:03 AM
<have indicated they feel Wildwood and Chesterfield are more considerate of their residents' interests."> My understanding of that comment was that Clarkson Valley's interests were that Wildwood and Chesterfield were more affluent. I felt that they were just saying in a tactful way that Ellisville wasn't socio-economically as significant as the other 2.
E. Schmidt May 30, 2012 at 02:09 PM
K James Your rush to "correct" is misplaced. If the info on the City of Ellisville website regarding the membership roster of the Planning and Zoning Commission is incorrect, your correction and complaint is with them -- not me. >>>I am not sure where you are getting your information, but there are no final plans for review at this time? Are you getting some insider information from somewhere?<<< Did I say there was a review of final plans at this time? No, I didn’t. Perhaps you should call City Hall to better understand what the point of the Public Hearing is on June 13th. The agenda is not yet available on line.
Morgan May 30, 2012 at 02:13 PM
If Walmart doesn't build, what happens to the vacant car dealerships? Do they sit and rot for years?
CSloan May 30, 2012 at 02:37 PM
"CSloan, I like your style." I'm sure you do. I'll assume that none of the rest of this gibberish is intended for me since you've taken it upon yourself to (incorrectly) define and argue my objections and offered a history lesson no one needs or wants. I'll leave you to your monologue. But hey--purely out of concern--the weird cool kids' lunch table thing you have going with Clarkson Valley? You might want to talk to someone about that.
E. Schmidt May 30, 2012 at 02:39 PM
K James Your rush to "correct" is wrong, misplaced and misdirected(again). If the info on the City of Ellisville website regarding the membership roster of the Planning and Zoning Commission is incorrect, your correction and complaint should be with City Hall -- not me. That’s from where I copied and pasted it. >>>I am not sure where you are getting your information, but there are no final plans for review at this time? Are you getting some insider information from somewhere?<<< Did I say there was a review of final plans at this time? No, I didn’t. Perhaps you should call City Hall to better understand what the point of the Planning and Zoning Commission Public Hearing is on June 13th. The agenda is not yet available on line.
E. Schmidt May 30, 2012 at 02:47 PM
To All -- I'm offering a free beer to anyone who can come up with the worst slogan using a combination of any of the below: Ellisville Walmart DESTINATION location passthrough Big Box If you manage to use all six words, you get a micro-brew 6 pack of your choice.
Jimmy C May 30, 2012 at 04:04 PM
The empty car dealerships are still going to be there. Why don't people understand this. They are building west of the car dealerships. That is the worst part. Why wouldn't you develop the corner (Nissan and Cadillac dealerships first)? These locations still rot and sit until another developer comes along to build. What is worse, they will be building in a TIF district boundary already created by the city. You will most certainly have to pay more sales tax for whatever is built there as well for CID and TDD (10.175%) The BIGGEST problem, however, is that means the most expensive real estate property in the center of our city will not help pay for schools, parks,fire, etc other than the amount the property was assessed at 2011's level. The R.E. property tax is frozen at 2011's rate and tax levies are only taken out for the schools, parks, etc for 2011. 100% of the annual increment % (2012, 2013, up to 23 years) is captured by a TIF fund to pay for the project. The property value for commercial real-estate is supposed to rise annually like every non-tif development. (I believe it is 2% every year, dont quote me) Doesn't seem like a lot, but if you got a 2% raise every year is compiles (google "the rule of 7") TO A LOT OF LOST MONEY TO SCHOOLS<PARKS<FIRE<ETC. cont................
Jimmy C May 30, 2012 at 04:05 PM
Hence, Rockwood needs bonds because… broke, county needs sewers… broke, fire… needs bonds. Guess who pays for the shortfall because the county is not receiving additional property tax from these subsidized projects.YOU! To help understand this complex algorithm of events in simple terms, TIF is 23 years by default. 1989 taxes wont pay for 2012 needs. Catch my drift?
E. Schmidt May 30, 2012 at 04:20 PM
Jimmy C-- You wrote-- >>>The empty car dealerships are still going to be there. Why don't people understand this. They are building west of the car dealerships. That is the worst part. Why wouldn't you develop the corner (Nissan and Cadillac dealerships first)? These locations still rot and sit until another developer comes along to build....<<< Thank for making that plain. Many Ellisville residents are under the mistaken impression that the Walmart is going to replace the two largest vacant car dealerships that sit right on the SW corner of Clarkson and Manchester. Many don't yet realize that the proposed Walmart will require only the taking of the small, skinny dealership to the west and the destruction of 25 buildings (100 units) in Clarkchester Apartments dislocating 250 people.
E. Schmidt May 30, 2012 at 06:35 PM
Super Duper Slogan Challenge- Include "Aim Higher" or "Aim Lower" in addition to the above 6 words and I will throw in a hamburger or veganburger to go with the micro-brew.
K James May 31, 2012 at 01:32 AM
Liz, Since i appropriately used all the words. I guess you are buying me beer and a burger, no vegan for me! Yeah i love it when i win somethin! Woohooo!!!!!
mike k May 31, 2012 at 03:04 AM
Once again, a few rabble rousers try to supress the will of the silent majority. To see what happens when a Walmart is built, look only to Chesterfield Valley or Washington, Mo as examples of coming prosperity to our area. In each case, new businesses flocked around Walmart once it opening. Build it and they will come. That will the result for Ellisville as well.
E. Schmidt May 31, 2012 at 01:56 PM
I was thinking something along the lines of-- Ellisville: Still a passthrough location to Wildwood with a destination Walmart Big Box only proving, "We Aim Lower." But, I am certain there are better wordsmiths out there.
K James May 31, 2012 at 02:04 PM
Ah Liz; you are the one who is just copying and pasting. I did my research. As you well know, the stuff online is often out of date or incorrect, with any website, information is available. I think the city staff does a great job ES wrote above<<<<<There are code variances that have to clear the Planning and Zoning Commission and the City Council before Sansone can squeeze this BIG BOX BEHEMOTH on a site that is clearly way too small to accommodate it.>>>>> your words not mine. Which is why I was asking where you were getting your information. You imply a lot with your statements Liz.
K James May 31, 2012 at 02:05 PM
Liz; I am not sure why you are fighting so hard to stay in a city that you obviously detest.
E. Schmidt May 31, 2012 at 02:14 PM
<<<<<There are code variances that have to clear the Planning and Zoning Commission and the City Council before Sansone can squeeze this BIG BOX BEHEMOTH on a site that is clearly way too small to accommodate it.>>>>> your words not mine. Which is why I was asking where you were getting your information...<<< I can read the code. I can look at a map. Where's the mystery? Or better yet, explain to us how it is not TOO BIG and will fit just fine without any zoning or variance changes? We're waiting...
E. Schmidt May 31, 2012 at 02:15 PM
<<<<<There are code variances that have to clear the Planning and Zoning Commission and the City Council before Sansone can squeeze this BIG BOX BEHEMOTH on a site that is clearly way too small to accommodate it.>>>>> your words not mine. Which is why I was asking where you were getting your information...<<< I can read the code. I can look at a map. Where's the mystery? Or better yet, explain to us how it is not TOO BIG and will fit just fine without any zoning or code variance changes? We're waiting...
E. Schmidt May 31, 2012 at 02:26 PM
The only thing I detest is gullibility displayed the the majority of the City Council to hand over "free financing" in the form of a taxpayer subsidy to a MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR DEVELOPER on behalf of a MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR CORPORATION by forcing owners to sell under the Threat of Eminent Domain. Does that clear-up things up a bit for you? And let me call your attention to something most people have missed on p. 11 of the Redevelopment Agreement-- >>>3.4 ....The parties acknowledge that the Tenant will construct the New Store on behalf of the Developer.<<< So very interesting...
K James May 31, 2012 at 04:45 PM
MWatson. I think that she detests anyone who doesn't agree with her.

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